When (and why) did what used to be known as Feminism become labelled Radical Feminism?

chairman - IME women become radical feminists because they get fed up of the rubbish about lap dancing and prostitution being empowering and feminist. Wanting to fight and challenge male oppression is not teh same as hating the opposite sex or being like an MRA.

I find Dittany is insightful and makes clear points. I would never believe any post criticising another MNer unless that MNer was on the thread to defend herself or I had read the context in which it was posted.

Someone could criticise me here by saying - Eats said that all radical feminists should kill some male babies every week.

most violenec on the planet is by men and most of the prison population is male
yes and men are more likely to get time off for good behaviour. As it stands, most women who commit any crime that involves any degree of violence are sectioned under the mental health act and rarely see the light of day again. Why? because gender stereotyping means that women are not allowed to be angry or to assert themselves, when and if they do, they are duly labelled mad.

As for women who are nice being equated with pathetic, words fail me. Whilst more men need to do their share of the dishes, I'd hate to live in a world where men became the exploited class.

Meow, don't draw other's in so you can bash other posters. It's bullying.

eats , i hate male violence, rape and oppression

the radfems and the MRA's do have alot in common, like it or not, they both distrust the opposite sex at best, there speaches borders on hate speach. and, most inportantly whatever the subject matter, it's what makes them look good and the opposite sex bad that they focus on, there is very little inpartial thought going on.

Agreed Xenia

I think criticism of others is absolutely fine. I have women who are all nice nice to the face of others in a very pathetic kind of way. Let us have much more female testosterone on this planet and then women could seize leadership roles and leave men to do the dishes.

it is not hate speech to say most violenec on the planet is by men and most of the prison population is male. It's a fact. It's like saying black youths in London commit more crime than whites or women get better A level results than men. People may not like these facts but it's not wrong to state them. We should certainly always look into the causes of them of course.

meow don't be silly

chairman - If you want to translate hating male violence, rape and opppression as a fundamental dislike of the opposite sex, go ahead. Feminists are kind of used to being called man haters. Much easier than recognising the real oppression that feminists are criticising and trying to fight.

I don't see any hate speech in anything dittany has written. Are you trying to silence all debate WW?

So we'll all trundle off and make free choices with no discussion about the wider implications, how very selfish and individualistic that would be.

dittany - I'm not criticising your choice to be a radical feminist, I'm only criticising hate speech and bigotry. Nothing to do with you, or feminism. Because it's perfectly possible to be feminist without hate speech or bigotry.

No one is criticising people for making choices but it is totally acceptable to criticise the choice itself and question why someone might make those choices.

A man who beats up his wife and exploits her domestically isn't doing so because he lives in a capitalist system

The word wife is really important here because women were free from monogamous committed relationships with individual men right up until we started to settle on the earth and develop agriculture and coinage. That is not to say that some tribes didn't encourage monogamy but it was far less common.

I can't give a one-word answer when we have differing definitions of the subject matter.

As for the rest - nice twisting of words. Seems I'm not the only one who's good at that.

Also, giving people choice, in my book means, allowing them to exercise choice without criticising them for it.

Well, of course wearing lip stick is not a feminist choice. The same as it isn't an anti-feminist choice. Sometimes, it's just wearing lip-stick.

As for whether I want feminism to succeed? The brand of feminism you promote gives me nightmares.

I want equality, I'm a liberal. The brand of feminism I subscribe to has been derided by you more than once as not feminist.

yes, with the one exception, that men do not exploit women for money, that money should not change hands, that women are not commodities to be exchanged, that women are not commodities to be purchased.

I have already said that all men within all classes exploit women, dittany, I fundamentally disagree on how and why that happens.

Do you want women to be free to wear what they want to wear, to do what they want to do, to say what they want to say and to enjoy what they want to enjoy or not?

Please, don't use the "we're just analysing not mandating" cop-out. Just answer with a straight "yes" or "no".