been musing, about breasts and underwear.

It is predictable that if women talk about not wearing a bra, someone always says "I'd be giving myself black eyes". One wonders how this lady managed to be running fast enough to slap herself in the face, and what she was wearing at the time. It probably wasn't trials for the Olympics.

But more serious is a woman's breasts being called "noticable past the boundaries of decent". We do expect people to wear clothes, and this woman was, but is that the way we want a natural body to be described?

Yes hit in the face maybe - but not 2 black eyes.

"But tbh I do find comments such as - I have to wear a bra otherwise when I run for a bus I would get 2 black eyes - as a bit self hating. Its not remotely true and not funny, but very self insulting and mocking of your breasts."

One of my friends has large enough boobs that she has been hit in the face by them when running without a bra.

I suspect if you grow up not wearing a bra, you get used to it and you would find wearing a bra uncomfortable. In the same way those brought up wiithout wearing shoes find shoes incredibly restricting.

I wear a bra and have large breasts. But tbh I do find comments such as - I have to wear a bra otherwise when I run for a bus I would get 2 black eyes - as a bit self hating. Its not remotely true and not funny, but very self insulting and mocking of your breasts.

Sorry I wouldn't have said this if it wasn't on the feminism board, but I do think it is a feminist issue

Bras make no difference to your breasts sagging. That is why you don't see it claimed in bra adverts in the UK; sports bra manufacturers used to make this claim but they were stopped by the ASA.

I didn't wear a bra until I started breastfeeding. My 36DD breasts have not really sagged and I'm nearly 40. Not that I'm saying not wearing a bra stops your breasts from sagging! Just that it is a matter of luck.

I do think it is more comfortable to run in a sports bra. But bra wear the rest of the time for me is about a beauty standard. I don't wear a bra if I'm in the house.

I think it has to do more with bra size than body weight, as much as fat is often a cause for increased breast size their are many extremely overweight women with quite small chests I doubt going without a bra would cause them physical discomfort, plus breast size is largely genetic. E.g a size 20 + with a a/b cup probably wouldn't be hugely affected by going braless.

I'm a 38G and I was a 36DD before my DC and now I have to wear a bra everywhere even in my sleep its just too uncomfortable to go without. plus it would be unsightly and would feel like I'm 'flapping around' eurgh*.

I have a relative with special needs who refused to wear a bra for years and is now grotesquely saggy and isn't even of an age where you'd expect it. Wearing a nighty around visitors etc is a complete no-no as its noticable past the boundaries of decent. as horrible as it sounds its true. So just from that I think going bra less can cause issues,yes.

I used to be an A/B cup, and after being marched to the bra-fitters as a teen always wore bras, albeit pretty flimsy ones (small sized bras were often flimsy in those days). Anyway, when I was 21 I spent the summer in a really hot place and ditching the bra made me so much cooler, so I did . Didn't wear one again regularly till I was pregnant at 31. In fact, I'd thought I probably wouldn't bother with nursing bras.

Then, ouch ouch ouch. I couldn't bear not to wear a bra as my nipples were so sensitive. It also of course held the breast pads - and sometimes the cabbage leaves - and was a marginal help in stopping me feeling like I had overinflated and very sore balloons strapped on.

Post-breastfeeding, I'm afraid I haven't gone back to braless, as I'm a bit bigger and floppier than I was, so not as comfortable, and my nipples are, ahem, rather lumpy .

In my 10 years or so of bralessness I guess people noticed, but rarely commented or stared. Mind you, I think that, although uncommon, it wasn't quite as rare as now.

I missed Tia's post first time round. It's true, bra-wearing should be optional and it's not.

Even if it didn't hurt I don't know if I could really ditch the bra - I know that having visible nipples as I went about my daily business would just lead to a day of staring, comments, etc.

I'm a B cup and I'm all for the burning of our bras: but it hurts to go bra-less. I have no idea if that's down to wearing a bra since I was 15 (last one in the class - the shaming I got for being in a vest at 15!) or whether I have sensitive boobskin or what.

I sure as shit wouldn't run without a sports bra. I went riding without one on once and owwwwwch!

i have often wondered how women in tradiational tribal societies managed to run around without a bra.. or even how they dance energetically... i could NOT run or jiggle around without a sports bra... but i wonder if i am 'fat' compared to the women i'm thinking of.. i am a size 12-14 and 34DD chest..

for me wearing a bra is a feminist liberation - sports bras allow me to participate in traditionally male passtimes like marathon running, martial arts and mountain biking without 'feminine' discomfort.

I even sleep in a bra, I can't bear to be without. I'm actually quite small because I'm very small everywhere.

I feel more dignified wearing a bra and I would feel very conscious of people looking if I didn't wear a bra.

True that many women feel more comfortable with a bra on. But then, many women don't. Could wearing a bra be optional, without any negative things being said about the non-wearers? Because in the patriarchy-ruled world people are apt to be unpleasant if a woman has visibly unconstrained breasts.

It is hard to extricate the issues here from the modern issue that huge numbers of women are pretty fat these days in a way they never were.

OK one final point. Other posters after me have spoken about the discomfort of large breasts untethered.

So, if you wear a bra because your breasts are uncomfortable and the less tethered and lower they hang the more uncomfortable they are (and let's face it, if they are really big then the weight of them is quite likely to give you backache) are those who talk of societal pressures, conditioning and cosmetic results really not willing to see that the bra has health benefits just in the way that maintaining your teeth has? Bad teeth or over heavy dangling boobs are both causes of discomfort and possible ill health.

I am a right-on feminist when it comes to all sorts of things such as rape, abortion, bodily autonomy, equal pay, equal rights blah, blah but sometimes we can concentrate so much on seeing conditioning, patriarchy, societal pressures in every little thing that we totally overlook that there are things we do simply because they are right for us not because we want to look younger, perter or prettier.

Sometimes things are what they are. Let's not forget Occam's razor folks.

The only thing to consider in the 'naturally we wouldn't wear bras' line is that naturally we wouldn't be wearing clothes either.

I've got very small breasts (AA cup) and never wear a 'proper bra', but I often (say 50% of the time) wear a stretchy crop top under my clothes just because it is softer & pleasanter against the skin.

Funnily enough I was having this discussion with a non-underwear wearing friend a couple of days ago and she reckons your nipples toughen up if you never wear a bra, but I don't feel inspired to experiment.

On the same note, and thinking of my non-knicker-wearing friends, why do we not find knickers a Bad Thing? Loose skirts and no knicks is definitely better from the pov of thrush, cystitis etc etc. (Though personally I prefer stout trousers for work at least, again from a comfort/safety viewpoint.)

I wear a bra all the time - 24 hours a day. It's a sensory issue for me; I have large breasts and have little-to-no sensation in the lower part of them, so the feeling of them resting on my ribcage/stomach makes me feel really uncomfortable. Seriously - I can pinch and draw blood and not feel a thing, it's weird.

I've no idea if this is common/normal. It doesn't really bother me as long as I have bra on.

It's just the stairs for me. I end up running up and down them a lot, and always end up grasping the boobs firmly as I find it uncomfortable having them bouncing about. Otherwise, I don't care. It's the bouncing I can't be doing with, and I'm fairly active. It's either a bra, a bind, or chop them off.

I would feel rather "exposed" without a bra on tbh. And I work in a school and I think the parents may object....

Also, it's not often I run for a bus these days but you never know when the situation may arise....

My boobs would be most uncomfortable without a bra, particularly in the ten days before a period. Also I don't want them catching in my buckle when I fasten my jeans belt! I also want to run for the bus without getting two black eyes.

I find it hurts my back less (I have chronic upper back pain) plus going braless feels hugely uncomfortable when going up and down stairs!

I understand what you are saying, but tbh I think everyone is so conditioned - men and women - that it is very hard to work out what we actually want to do and what is socialisation or conditioning.

"two the kerb?" "to" idiot me!