RAD FEM 12! Booking for the London conference is now open!

I'd love to go but can't afford it. :(

I'm really shocked at the level of vitriol and threats on twitter aimed at some of the organisers. Someone's attacked a member of Object [who is currently on mat leave and only tweeted a link to the conference] and demanded that Object make a formal response. Considering the woman in question was tweeting from her personal account and not her Object account, I can't imagine why the attacker thought Object should get an opinion on it. Frankly, some of the anti-radfemmers are making similar comments that F4J made about MN. I can't believe how rude people are being.

I am only vaguely aware of the whole thing due to FB friends Prolesworth. But I have no time at all for Sheila Jeffreys.

If you're referring to Sheila Jeffreys as I presume you are, she is not a 'trans hater'. She is critical of transgenderism. It's a political analysis of transgenderism which is in no way motivated by hatred or fear of people who identify as trans.

I'm kind of divided on this, as someone who has a fair few trans friends. I've seen and read and heard a lot of bigoted spite from feminists towards transpeople, and FWIW I think a lot of the objections to RadFem2012 are not so much about the exclusion of transpeople from the actual event, but are because one of the invited speakers is a trans-hater. I'm generally in agreement with the fact that gender isn't binary (FFS it is a biological FACT that a percentage of people are born intersex or hermaphrodite).
On the other hand, I do rather support the right of people who are organising a small-scale, one-off event without much funding behind it, to be able to choose who is and is not allowed to attend. Just like, if you are having a party in your house (or indeed in hired premises like a club or a community centre) you get to write the guest list and don't have to admit anyone you don't like the look of.

It's just Bad Manners

Good point about anti patriarchy issues. Yes there's loads of common ground. But transwomen have their own specific issues that they, their own spaces and their own voices are loudest there. Rightly so. It would be wrong for bio women to enter those spaces, and takes up space and airtime in those gatherings . Bio women aren't the authorityon transwomens particular struggles. And vice versa, surely.

Thank you Kim! I always say on threads likethis that some transexuals do think as you do, but I am rarely believed.

I think it is a good thing that there are feminist events where everyone can go. I also think it is a good thing that men have feminist events (like the Minnesota ones), transwomen have them, liberal feminists have them and so on.

I could also see it as possible that women who consider themselves transgender or cisgender might want to organise an event together where they talk particularly about how misogyny has an impact on people whose gender is feminine. They may then feel that women who don't identify as cis or trans are perhaps not helpful in that space.

Widow - I would hope that anyone who is a feminist - and this conference is for feminists - would have the decency and ethics not to lie

Eats - my question was how the "non-woman born women" are identified. And how xy-women who have masculine visual traits, and possibly even beard growth (which can be caused by hormonal imbalances) are treated? Will they be asked whether they had their foof from birth?

kim147 I have a friend who had her transition in her teens. She identifies as a woman, faces the same discrimination other women do, and doesn't introduce herself as trans to people who don't know her past. If I didn't know it, I would have no idea she was trans.

I'd find it weird if she was asked to give up that detail of her personal/medical history. (Fwiw, I've no idea whether she went through with surgery, and I haven't asked, but she takes hormones)

What was your question?

Eats - I'm not interested in the genetic make-up of people who identify as women, nor do I feel the need to check their pants - if someone identifies as a woman, that's in my view all that's needed.

I don't see the need for a "biological women only" space, as I don't see the need to distinguish or put in a hierarchy of womanlyness.

Still waiting for the answer to my question. Why does that get ignored whilst the same old stereotypes keep getting repeated?

Yes I have met the over feminised ones as well. But I agree I haven't met any Trans "women" with beards. Agree people can have an opinion about Trans issues and give their opinion. I just get annoyed that some people see any space for biological women as transphobic

Widow - Do you not think biological women should ever be able to meet by themselves in any circumstances?

kim - Have you met many Trans people? Because like most feminists who value and try to create women only space I have. And I have met Trans "women" like that. And Kim, some Trans "women" actually do recognise that biological women might want some space just for them.

Alice - I know the F-Word do that. Early on in reading it I tried to make some very polite comments around transgender issues. They were never published as apparently it is "transphobic" to think there is any value in any space for women born women.

"There are plenty of issues which affect all people who want to challenge the patriarchy." Yes there are, including issues that affect men. there are loads and loads of spaces for women, Transexuals and men to come together to discuss feminism. This is one space that personally I value.

DaisyHayes - this hirsute adam's-apply masculine transwoman in a lumberjack shirt who wants to invade rape workshops sounds like a straw(wo?)man to me, to be honest.

And you have not answered my question about cis women who have beard growth due to hormonal problems, or those with more masculine features -do they have to present their birth certificate? Will their genitals be checked? Will they make other women uncomfortable simply because of their appearance and thus should be excluded?

I know women born as women who have beard growth - would they have to undergo knicker-checking to be admitted? Reminds me of all the offensive foolishness of idiots going on about how Florence Welch or Lady Gaga must be trans.

Basically, you're saying a woman born as a woman is ok to present in masculine clothing and a crew cut, whilst a transgender woman isn't? Why? How can you reject hyper-feminity and at the same time make others who reject it too out to be less of a woman? That's confused to say the least.