Was anyone else outraged by the clerics comments on Question Time last night?

I fucking despise men to get arsey about rapist being men.

In england and wales, they can't be anything else.

But we're not allowed to even say it.

WTF is that about. Dissociation? There's no need. This is the feminist section, we already know that not all men are rapists. You need to go over to relationships or AIBU to talk to the women who don't know that.

Dione, that there was any support for a convicted rapist is wrong.

on the one hand i am expected to accept that male privilege has played a part in my life , allthough i dont sit on a board or in goverment and my life feels far from privilegde , on the other i'm expected to accept collective responability for what other male criminals do with their penises.

chairman - fwiw, it's really easy to think there is a 'personal' agenda against you/we as males when sexual assaults are discussed. There isn't, unless you 'support' asaults. Otherwise it's a protest against males incidence of sexual offending. Nothing more, and certainly not about you specifically.

sorry about that, i just feel that i was treated like i had said something like that.

Chairman, I do see your point, I really do, but it's really hard to find the right language. To say "will all rapists stop raping" is to deny the gender bias, and the gender bias is important, because there is something going wrong in extreme male culture that needs to be looked at.

To degenderize it it to fail to tackle that aspect.

As for the women nagging bit, my DS asks me that all the time! I tell him I'll stop nagging when he makes his bed and does his homework!!

messy thanks re thread. It just seems it's too much of a 'grown up' subject for MN right now! #maybeagainsometime

you know , it's crazy, if you actually look at what i said , (no one got blamed ) at that time we were still talking about question time , so someone finds another crime with another set of circumstances where the victim was abused and you all wade in against me , because i think rapevictims should be abused, it's those shorty skirts you know , how on earth can man keep there ramaging genitals in cheak with all that thigh on show!!!

I disagree that there was "overwhelming support" for the footballer rapist.

oh blu, send a variation of that post to any answers, it really says it all

Pan, I was watching your thread with interest BTW, but the responses were a bit sparse at the beginning, which was a bit disappointing. Then I came back to find it had gone I was a bit ! A bit radical for MN!

I think most intelligent people can see that making a statement like that, whilst badly worded, is not implying that all men are rapists.

i had no idea about the footbalers victim being abused , i dont follow football, i do watch the news when i can but i tend to yawn at anything to do with football.
anyway, in this debate , on question time , about these victims of rape , no one blamed the victims.

chairman I was answering your question "in what way are the victims being blamed." What I outlined was what happened in the Ched Evans case.

'Nagging' comes with a subjective interpretation. Rape doesn't.

would you see it in the same way if it was
"will all women stop nagging"
for example?

Of course it doesn't suggest that.
Why do so many feel the urge to divert attention from revolting crimes committed by men - because I think you'll find the number of women who are convicted of that offence to be vanishingly small - by moaning about how ill-treated men are?

"messy , i dont see your point, if a footbaler is guilty of rape and is being sent down for it in what way are the victims being blamed ?"

Because there was overwhelming public support for the footballer and disrespect and verbal abuse towards the victim. That's my point.

And FGS Chairman, no one here is saying all men are rapists. Will you please get over yourself? No one is blaming you personally. I know it feels shit and you feel defensive of your gender and I don't blame you. When I think of what whites have done to black people I alternate between an uneasy guilt and defensive "we're not all like that". But that's dumb, because it's not about me any more than this is about you. It's about a system that perpetuates a set of beliefs that allows rapists to believe they were entitled, just as Ched Evans probably still feels he did nothing wrong.

chairman - it doesn't suggest that at all!

A simple comparison is like asking "will all men stop supporting Arsenal?" 99.99% of the male population will say 'no problem, that doesn't affect me because I don't support Arsenal anyway'.

pan, the phrase "The only way to stop rape is for men to stop raping" suggests that all men rape, you probobly dont find this offensive, i do!

crunchy frog, why was that addressed to me? am i your victim now?

chairman? No, not all men rape. Not sure why you are asking such a question.

I think it's in response to 'to stop rape, men need to stop raping'. As you will find from your research just now it's men who rape. Not all men. Just some. Others sexually assault, and do so against girls and women in alarming numbers.

fish i agree these are hideous offenses, in think everyone agrees on that, but your not being made to feel guilty by default, i diddnt say what about that menz they are your words

Clothes are not 'sexually provocative'. I am damn keen on a pretty dress but I have never wanted to sleep with it.

If a person finds a child in any clothing 'sexually provocative', that person is a sick fuck.

It is pointless to talk about children's clothing as sexually provocative.

All this talk of early sexulasation of the child being a factor. On R4 this evening some man talking about society had a role in pre-grooming those children.

What about pre-grooming men to be sexually predatory, to feel sexually entitled, to see women as sex toys? PLaying Grand Theft Auto and killing prostitutes as part of the game, consuming porn in every medium, magazine, internet, text message. If this does not turn every man into a rapist (and I don't believe it does, actually, just some) then wearing high heels does not turn girls into sex-fodder. And yet we have heard nothing for two days but society's influence on girls.

And on an on about 'is race a factor'? Who knows. Maybe for those particular men and their equally revolting unprosecuted cronies race was a factor. No-one with sense will assume that that means that ethnicity prescribes a compulsion to rape. What we do know was that the fact that they were men was a factor. So unless they think all men are rapists, why do those people ask whether race was a factor? It is a distraction.

Mostly, I am fed up with hearing man after man comment on this on the TV and the radio....and the occasional woman's voice, qualifying some defensive statement by a man, blaming 'pre grooming', defending his liberal credentials in the endless race talk, blaming parents...