The right to choose to become a parent

Is this fair? its the best of the alternatives.

I sympathise with the point of view expressed but ultimately it does come back to: what is the alternative? What other choice is either humanly or humanely possible? The same holds equally true when it is the woman's wish to abort and the man's wish for the pregnancy to continue.

The pregnancy is (in the best case) the result of a consensual act, which bore a remote risk of pregnancy, however much reduced by use of contraception. Engaging in sex means bearing that in mind, so if the sex results in a child it's only fair if both parents contribute to the upbringing of the child.

The woman ultimately gets to decide whether to abort or not, because it's her body which is affected directly by the decision.

No matter whether the woman decides to abort or to continue the pregnancy, it will impact on her body and health. Both pregnancy and abortion come with their own sets of risks - it should be down to the woman to decide which risk for her body she is willing to take.

I did actually know someone who went and got a vasectomy in his early thirties, because he knew by then that he would never want children and it meant that he could never get involved with a woman who did want them. Right from the start, cards were on the table that he'd had a vasectomy and there was no negotiation room. It meant no-one would ever have any false hope and I think that's fair enough.

The concept of a 'financial abortion'/parental surrender - i.e. a situation where a father signs away all responsibilities for, and (crucially) rights to, a baby - is one that's hotly debated in MRA circles.

I definitely think there's a disparity in the reproductive rights of men and women, but really one just has to say 'tough shit' to men; yes, it's unfair, but women have more options because it's their body. It's an unfair situation, but anything other than the status quo would be worse.

Even so, it's interesting to see all the uproar over the attack on women's reproductive rights in the US. I imagine if abortion were outlawed, people would be saying to women the the exact same thing they are saying to men now: "you knew the risks, you shouldn't have had sex, now you have to 'man' up and take responsibility for your actions...".

I agree with FoodUnit.

A man should support a child he conceives by accident, because that is a child's right.

Whereas he has no right to order a woman to have an abortion, because it's her body and he has no right to tell her what to do with it.

Decent men don't have a problem with this. They understand that even if they have used precautions and the contraception fails, they are responsible for any child that contraceptive failure results in, even though they don't have a vote in whether that child is born or not. It's only entitled whiny nobbers that complain about it, I have never yet met a man I respected, who expressed the view that this is unfair and that men should be able to just walk away from their children. Normal men agree that though it may be a bummer, you just have to accept your responsibilities with a good grace because the welfare of a child comes before the injured feelings of a grown adult.

Men who really 100% don't want the responsibility of a child, should either get a vasectomy or refrain from PIV sex with women who might get pregnant.

On first read I agreed with you knowitall. If a pregnancy is a result of contraception failure, i.e. both man and woman thought they were taking precautions, then the woman has the choice to abort but the man doesn't. This doesn't seem fair. Why should the man be responsible just because the woman exercised her choice to continue with the pregnancy?

However, I then thought, this doesn't take account of the fact that many (perhaps even most?) women would find it very difficult to have an abortion and/or think abortion is wrong. Therefore, in a sense, it is not really their "choice" to continue with the pregnancy. Given this, the man and the woman should be in exactly the same position - i.e. they should both be responsible for the result of the contraception failure.

I'm not sure there is that much moral complexity to this. You have rights in the part of the process that your body is involved with, surely?

I think you are missing the child's perspective in this. Every child deserves to have the best possible chance in life, and money is a large part of that, as well as care, attention, protection, etc. A new life is a massive undertaking, and it can easily be messed up - through no fault of that child.

A child doesn't choose to be born, but parents choose to have sex (unless it is rape). It doesn't matter what a mother personally feels about what she can expect from the father - the child is the one that has the right to expectations from both parents. The child is entitled to the fathers money and as a mother you have a duty to secure that for your child.