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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism and the idea of a man or woman trapped in the wrong body are contradictory ideas

631 replies

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 07/05/2012 19:25

This post is in response to another thread where posters wanted to discuss this, but didn't want to derail the thread. So I said I would start the thread here.

A basic element of feminism is that women and men are born as that sex - biologically men/women, but society socialises us to behave as our alloted gender. Gender is the idea that women and men behave in certain ways. And we are all socialised in this even if we reject it or try to as adults.

For example, research shows that people treat the same babies differently depending on whether they are told they are boys or girls. The media pumps images to our DCs about what a girl or a boy should be interested in, play with and wear. Teachers are more likely to allow boys to speak out to the whole class than girls - well researched.

Feminism challenges these gender constructs and says that girls and boys can enjoy doing the same things, etc. Transexuals talk about being born in the wrong body e.g. born in a male body, but feeling like they are really a girl/woman.

But this is obviously at odds with feminism. Sex is a biological fact. You are born in a male or female body. Behaving or feeling like a man/woman is supposed to feel, is an artificial construct. Because what does a man or woman feel like? We only feel like ourselves as individuals. So any idea of feeling a man or a woman or a boy or a girl is based on an artifacial idea of how a boy/girl is supposed to feel.

So the basic idea of being born in the wrong body, is contradictory to the basic ideas of feminism.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 07/05/2012 19:47

Much work is done, especially in the UK to make sure they are right, before even hormones are prescribed, never mind surgery undertaken.
As I said, for transgender people, their own body is their primary issue, society's views are secondary.

I am a feminist because I believe in equal rights for all. This includes homosexuals, ethnic minorities and transgender people. I can't see how this issue is incompatible with feminism, unless feminism has come to mean superiority for those who think a certain way.

ThatGhastlyWoman · 07/05/2012 19:45

I don't really think that it matters whether we approve, don't approve, or are neutral on the whole thing. People who are born transgender have an extremely hard time as it is, in the world in which we live. (As distinct from the one we might think we should live in.)

Not giving someone sh*t for having the guts to try to do something about it (whether because you're some queer-bashing cro-magnon bloke, or someone who does so out of a sense of political correctness) is simply being fair minded and human, in my opinion.

Of course, gender, biologically, is not as binary as we think. There are many people who are apparently one gender, superficially, but another biologically. Live and let live- it would be a boring world if we were all the same- but it can be a nicer world to be in if we remember to be a bit less sh*t to one another.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 07/05/2012 19:33

Business Trills - Fair enough, some feminists do believe there are differences in behaviour because of biology. I guess what I was trying to say is there a difference between sex which is a biological body and gender which is a social construct.

Dione - I know they believe they have the wrong sex organs. But that doesn't mean they are right to believe that or that it is compatible with feminism

OP posts:
BusinessTrills · 07/05/2012 19:31

I'll agree that it is very difficult to say "I feel like a women" when you don't really know what other people who are women "feel like" and what other people who are men "feel like".

DioneTheDiabolist · 07/05/2012 19:30

No, transgender people don't simply feel that they are treated or should behave differently because society says they should. They believe that they have the wrong sex organs. For them their biology is wrong.

BusinessTrills · 07/05/2012 19:29

Sorry, but you've fallen at the first hurdle by claiming something to be a key element of feminism when actually it is something that not all feminists agree on.

A basic element of feminism is that women and men are born as that sex - biologically men/women, but society socialises us to behave as our alloted gender.

I think you'll find that not all people who call themselves feminists think that this is true. Some think that men and women are intrinsically different in behaviour and feeling as well as in physical form. Some think that men and women may be intrinsically different but that we don't know for sure to what degree or in what way.

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