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Original poster

Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

562 replies

Nyac · 07/05/2012 18:43

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:31

I think Levy just didn't want to take her analysis any further than what was right in front of her minimath, which was women copying men's misogynistic excesses in the name of their freedom.

OP posts:
EclecticShock · 09/05/2012 22:29

Freedom of speech and all that, so
I won't be reporting your personal attacks. Maybe because I'm secure in my beliefs and not offended by your posts.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/05/2012 22:18

Basil - you mean you're not Andrea Dworkin!? Shock

Well, I am upset now.

Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:14

Basil! Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:13

Seal Press is a good example of a fun fem publishing house.

Published the horrific Full Frontal Feminism by Jessica Valenti (naked woman on the cover) and Amanda Marcotte's book (whose name I forgot) together with its racist illustrations which she was warned about but failed to remove. When you compare the quality of the books that were published as feminism in the 90s and noughties compared to the sixties and seventies, it's difficult to believe there actually was once a vibrant feminist movement that did seek to over throw men's power, not just fuck them as many different ways as possible.

Of course that's the US, but they seem to get the bad ideas first, and then pass them over to us.

OP posts:
minimathsmouse · 09/05/2012 22:12

Basil ,

Why did Levy blame it on women? I can see she must have done from the title but why? I haven't read it.

BasilEatsFoulEggs · 09/05/2012 22:09

And I have to come here regularly to get turned off feminism.

If I didn't, I'd be Andrea Dworkin by now.

BasilEatsFoulEggs · 09/05/2012 22:08

oh the fem topic is always so tiresome and pointless and bickery and bullyish, but I can't help posting on it in a really aggressive, confrontational, preremptory, rude or passive-aggressive manner.

What is it about this board?

Is it just that I'm bonkers, or is it that the narsty feminists pull me in and make me post words on a screen?

I just can't work it out. What am I doing here? Wossitallabaht?

minimathsmouse · 09/05/2012 22:08

Its a shame but feminism might be imploding from within but again everyone is foxed by the word Radical. Maybe someone should have asked electic what she understood by the term radical feminism. I have read back through the post and she said at one point she is here to learn.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism

Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:05

So anyway, back to the attempted fun fem takeover of feminism. Ariel Levy wrote about this in Female Chauvinist Pigs, which must be nearly ten years old now. She blamed it on women however. And forgot to notice that it's men at the top of media encouraging these women, giving them jobs and publishing contracts (see Moran's useless book), which ensure that the unfeminist feminist voice drowns out actual feminism or criticism of male harm to women.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 09/05/2012 22:05

but we concur slutwalk misguided
and no I don't think Jordan or towie lassies are empowered by plastic tits and agents

scottishmummy · 09/05/2012 22:02

clearly

Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:02

I do disagree ScottishMummy!

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 09/05/2012 22:00

enlightening to c&p
nah its online countering
except you can c&p endless prose, as if ta dah

Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 22:00

The thread has been derailed yet again though. There's always more excitement in bashing than there is in talking about things.

Especially when it's something that is worth challenging like the sex positive anti-feminist attempted takeover of feminism.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nyac · 09/05/2012 21:58

Eclectic, these were your first posts on this thread. They had nothing to do with engaging with topic, although they do seem to show a pattern in your modus operandi:

(I know I get criticised for C&Ping, but it can be so enlightening)

"I'm new to this section of mn. I find it patronising that it seems some people on this board think that those that don't agree with them just haven't seen the light yet. It's like talking to a born again Christian. Radical feminism has really put me off this board to be honest.

In fact, having read a few threads on this board, it generally smacks of female supremacy. This is not what I expected from feminism. I respected feminism but I was obviously very naive about the more fundamentalist side to it. I expect to be ignored as that's what seems to happen as people who disagree are seen as trouble makers or trolls. Or maybe you'll respond as you pity me being under the control of the patriarchal viewpoint. What a load of rubbish. Extremists are not healthy when they are dismissive of equality, the one thing they purport to seek. It's shame this board doesn't discuss topics which are actually useful in building a cohesive equality based society. What is wrong with the concept of humanism?

Are any of the radical feminists on here, actually successfully integrating into male dominated professions?

Such psychological bullshit, pardon my expression. Do you really think you can win hearts and minds with this approach. It's akin to brainwashing IMO.

Actually, I correct myself. You will win hearts and minds... Of the vulnerable.

How did you find that seahouses? How did you become successful and juggle your radical feminism... If indeed you are a radical feminist.

Too many questions to answer. For example I have seen that some people on this board get very annoyed when men are mentioned on topics relating to rape or fenital mutilation. Why? It's something that affects everyone not just women.

Seriously, radical feminism ( not feminism), is completely unscientific with no evidence and it reminds me of religion. Believe an ask no questions... What purpose does it serve other than to control? Does it actually help anyone in a practical sense?"

And so on, then you started to get deleted when you got really rude.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 09/05/2012 21:58

what a lot of inane she said,issue, oi you're rude
oh and the humph facesBlushAngry
it's this very squabbling,accusations of trolling that makes fem topics so tiresome at times.and then people list in threads they dislike the petty squabbling,name calling, and aggro

bruxeur · 09/05/2012 21:52

Getting a bit 6th form now, really?

Portofino · 09/05/2012 21:51

Eclectic, I used to come on here and be narky too. But there are some fantastic posters and a huge pool of knowledge here. Fine to challenge, but you have to LISTEN to what is being said. If you post rubbish, people WILL pull you on it. Treat it as a vigorous learning experience.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/05/2012 21:51

Oh, shit, you're right scottishmummy! Shock

I almost forgot that 'talk guidelines' are only accessible to moderators, instead of being available to all of us here: www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette

Blush

What an idiot, eh?

And as well, it's like I had this strange out of body experience where a poster actually asked us to offer opinions on whether or not she was being rude - and I replied to her.

God, I am ashamed now. Blush

AbigailAdams · 09/05/2012 21:50

Ask MNHQ Eclectic. They are the ones who deleted your posts. It isn't rocket science. But it is pretty tedious now.

EclecticShock · 09/05/2012 21:48

Ok, so what constituted a personal attack?

scottishmummy · 09/05/2012 21:47

you're not a moderator lrd
if posters at fault no doubt mnhq will illuminate

LRDtheFeministDragon · 09/05/2012 21:45

eclectic - I think you're misunderstood the whole site, to be honest! On MN in general personal attacks are not allowed.

It's nothing special about this section, I'm afraid - it's just one of the (few) rules in place.

bruxeur · 09/05/2012 21:42

Not entirely sure that Nyac is Turing +ve.