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Original poster

Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

562 replies

Nyac · 07/05/2012 18:43

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

OP posts:
Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:56

Eclectic, I don't know if anybody has noticed but you're doing a good line in anti-feminist propaganda here:

"brainwashing"
"female supremacy"
"psychological bullying"
"reminds me of religion"
"Extremism"

These are pretty harsh words towards people who you claim are the nasty ones. I'd say you're pointing your criticism in the wrong direction if you're objecting to aggression. Look at your own behaviour.

OP posts:
fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 21:55

I like BDSM because it gets me off. But I also see how it reflects the patriartchal framework of society.

GiantPuffball · 08/05/2012 21:54

I believe men and women are equal in worth and value and should be treated as such. I have the right to live my life as I see fit, as long as it isn't harming other people. If that means I want to wear skirts and make up and shag men, that's my look out.

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 21:53

The thing for me about this section is I don't come here for comfort and support. I come here to have my views challenged and to challange other peoples. With that in mind, this section works perfectly.

Portofino · 08/05/2012 21:52

'I an a feminist & by the way I do pole fit / take burlesque classes / enjoy BDSM' then I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say 'oh well I know you agree with equality, are against rape etc., but you're not actually a feminist - you're an interloper'.

I wouldn't say that at all, but I would (now) ask you why you think those things are good. And you are not allowed to use the word "empowerment" Wink

scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 21:52

mra=mens right activist,oft touted putdown if pov not agreed with
the down side of fem topics is can be dreadfully bogged down in name calling and youse is this and that

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 21:51

Mens Rights Activists

amillionyears · 08/05/2012 21:51

If you dont want any disagreements to be posted, I think there is some sort of quiche , or corner, or something that MN has.

joanofarchitrave · 08/05/2012 21:51

Thanks Nyac, that's helpful. I take back the 'journalistic shorthand' comment.
I stand by the rest though.

WidowWadman · 08/05/2012 21:50

Nyac - so you started a thread bashing "fun feminists" to use that awful term, and now you're getting all upset that they're talking back at you? Funny that.

GiantPuffball · 08/05/2012 21:50

Male rights activists

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:49

This thread was ignored for ages, and now it isn't, it's just turned into another bash the feminists session.

OP posts:
amillionyears · 08/05/2012 21:49

EclecticShock, you are brill.You have managed to say, in 1 day, what I have been trying to articulate in a week.
Only about 4 or 5 totally agree with each other on here.

EclecticShock · 08/05/2012 21:49

What are MRA's?

EclecticShock · 08/05/2012 21:48

frida when I first joined mn, it was for the SN boards. Then I found aibu and yes it was scary to see some of the vitriol but on balance its an even discussion. I participated in a thread last night on the feminist board unwittingly really and yes it's a scary place. No listening or tolerance on that thread just psychological bullying. It was an eye opener. Women on other boards are more supportive and understanding than here. Ironic as this is the feminist board...

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:47

"The best comparison I can make is between different sects in Christianity"

Actually you can just compare feminism to any other political movement, all of which have internal disagreements and different factions promoting slightly different positions. No need to lump us in with superstitious people who based their beliefs on faith rather than material reality (feminism bases its arguments and ideology on women's material reality).

OP posts:
fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 21:47

It's a difficult one. I look at myself and my 'lifestyle' choices and I can see quite clearly how living in a pratiarchy has informed them.ar?
The problem is because they are familiar they are comfortable and therefore very hard to give up.

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:45

tenets - my "s" key isn't working tonight

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 21:45

fem section gets bitty shouty
some huffy flounces
lots of you is rape apologist, what about da menz, antifeminist and [angry faces] Hmm but overall it's v interesting. just don't get bogged down in the aggro and Name calling

it got better after mnhq clarified it's a fem topic on mn, and not a fem board. cue a few huffs and flounces

ecclesvet · 08/05/2012 21:44

"I have never seen a feminist of any description advocating violence, let alone carrying it out."

Emily Davison, the suffragette who stepped in front of the horse, advocated and committed violence (although I doubt any of us have seen her in person!)

SinicalSanta · 08/05/2012 21:44

Oh I don't think the feminists are fighting among themselves

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:43

Fun fem comes from a quote from Andrea Dworkin: "I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind" if people aren't aware. It's a bit of an in joke.

Rather than slagging people off for daring to set some boundaries around feminism and its tenet, let's take a look at the people who have hijacked feminism for their own pro-sex industry, pro-patriarchal agenda. Because anti-woman politics are not what the feminist movement was invented to promote.

OP posts:
QueenofPlaids · 08/05/2012 21:43

Portofino actually I don't think this is quite the same thing.

I someone said 'I am a feminist but don't think women should have rights men have' then they've rather missed the point.

If someone says 'I an a feminist & by the way I do pole fit / take burlesque classes / enjoy BDSM' then I don't think it's necessarily accurate to say 'oh well I know you agree with equality, are against rape etc., but you're not actually a feminist - you're an interloper'. It may be okay to challenge them on their actions and if it's important to you, explaining why you don't think they should do whatever aspect of 'fun feminism' offends you, but that is a world away from calling people 'interlopers'.

The best comparison I can make is between different sects in Christianity (I am very lapsed and an atheist btw, so I have no axe to grind here).

SinicalSanta · 08/05/2012 21:43

If you wanted to quote the rest of my post you'll see I said it suits some women.

What do you mean undermining g men? I'd love some examples of Rad fems underminingordinary nice men like my husband for example.

Puffinsaresmall · 08/05/2012 21:42

Thank you for explaining re slutwalks Smile That is what I thought they were and I'm with Joan on being slightly Confused as to why they would be lumped together with shit like pole dancing.