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Original poster

Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

562 replies

Nyac · 07/05/2012 18:43

article by Julie Bindel in the New Statesman.

www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/08/fun-feminism-women-feminist

Quote:

"We need to bring back the radical edge to feminism, and do away with any notion that slutwalking, lap dancing, sex working or Burkha-wearing is liberation for women. If men like a particular brand of feminism, it means it is not working. "Fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin along with the Lib Dem party."

Agree with Julie, that it's extremely irritating to see a bunch of interlopers attempting to elbow their way in and co-opt feminism, redefining it to suit patriarchy's needs. I've even seen people who support patriarchal institutions like marriage, BDSM or the sex industry calling themselves radical feminists. There is so much misunderstanding and misinformation about feminism out there that people feel like they can grab what they like without making an actual political commitment or any kind of challenge to the patriarchy.

Really liberal feminism (the old kind, not the sex industry supporting kind) and radical feminism are the only kinds of feminism that have ever effected any kind of positive change for women. They need to be reclaimed and supported, not erased by third wave non-feminist feminism.

She's right about the lib dems too. :D Or maybe they are in the same boat and need some classic liberals to reclaim their party from the Tory party's whipping boys.

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 22:21

I disagreed with slutwalk,the imagery,the casual use of slut.trying to be ironic and failing. and no I don't think media covered it and took photos as they were ideologically sympathetic,I think slut walk was some misguided women enacting a schlocky stereotype

I do dispute the notion that Jordan and glamour modeling et al is empowering as these women made choce and earn good money. hell no, that's not choice it's titillation dressed up as good business acumen

Portofino · 08/05/2012 22:19

"Sorry Portofino.I forgot you were the one that said you were learning". Yep and happy to give you some tips on the journey into feminism if you want them.

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 22:18

But you should expect some level of irritation at your pov if you march into fwr and say 'feminism is a load of shite' or some such thing. At the very least.

BasilEatsFoulEggs · 08/05/2012 22:16

psychological warfare forsooth

Grin
Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 22:16

Now you're using the word bullying when you've said all those horrible things about feminists Eclectic. I think that's totally outrageous.

OP posts:
BasilEatsFoulEggs · 08/05/2012 22:15

Open minded?

Pull the other one

Yet another thread about how narsty and bullying all the nasty feminists are.

By people accusing us of brainwashing, bullying etc.

Hmm
amillionyears · 08/05/2012 22:15

Sorry Portofino.I forgot you were the one that said you were learning.

scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 22:13

it was suggested fem topics was feminist space for feminists,with a feminist ethos and fem moderation
mnhq asserted fem topics are discussion topic about feminism in the mn domain but not a feminist board. all got heated, some flounced, felt mnhq unsupportive. I don't think mnhq unsupportive at all, pretty much asserted mn open to all discursive

IMO,necessary and cleared the air

flatulette · 08/05/2012 22:13

Will there be any examples of the promotion of female supremacy here or was that poster full of shit?

Portofino · 08/05/2012 22:11

Sorry, amillion? This isn't AIBU. It is not about point scoring. I am not claiming to be SuperFeminist extraordinare. I said upthread that I am learning all the time. I said I would ask know why anyone thought these things were good. You are free to answer anything you like. Are you going to give your answer?

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 22:11

Jezebel is a good example of 'fun feminism'. They do have good articles and debates but quite a lot of the time I just go 'really and how is that relevant/helpful in the fight for womens lib.'

EclecticShock · 08/05/2012 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 22:06

Maybe we need a defition of fun fem aka "sex positive feminist" which is who Julie Bindel is criticising.

Sex positive feminists do believe that the route to women's liberation is through fucking. Being paid is apparently even better, as is taking part in sadistic sex with men. It's a travesty of feminism, and I'd be really interested to hear why people are so offended at it being criticised.

OP posts:
amillionyears · 08/05/2012 22:05

scottishmummy,was it mnhq not supporting fem topics?

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 22:04

Queenof but hopefully not claimimg that by doing those things she promotes the onward march of feminism.

SeaHouses · 08/05/2012 22:04

I think there is a big distinction between participating in an activity and promoting it as feminist or liberating. The criticism here is surely of the latter not the former.

amillionyears · 08/05/2012 22:03

ooh, I knew Portofino would be in trouble.

fridakahlo · 08/05/2012 22:02

Nope, not so far Flatulette

QueenofPlaids · 08/05/2012 22:00

Portofino actually I didn't say those things were good, bad or indifferent.

And it was the OP who spoke of 'interlopers', which is a choice of language i really don't like. I know it was not you who used that word.

My point was not whether burlesque dancing is feminist (I think for the most part it's a bit daft & no I don't think it in itself is feminist), but whether a woman can undertake those activities and still claim the feminist label. I would argue that she can and in general, it's better that she does.

flatulette · 08/05/2012 21:59

Did anyone get round to explaining 'female supremacy' with examples of its promotion on these boards yet? I'd be fascinated to learn more. We owe the trolls, MRAs, blatant shit-stirrers whatever they are some thanks simply for driving traffic here, not for the first time I click on something in Active Convos and have my consciousness raised without even noticing I have strayed into the feminist area.

scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 21:59

aye,a few flounced
dark accusation on mnhq not supporting fem topics
big stooshie at time

EclecticShock · 08/05/2012 21:59

What's an interloper?

Original poster
Nyac · 08/05/2012 21:58

Can we remember what "fun fems" support:

pornography
prostitution
the sex industry
BDSM

Women who are promoting those things as feminist do need to be held to account. Feminism is a political movement to help women, we can't allow it to be turned into something that promote harm to women.

OP posts:
SeaHouses · 08/05/2012 21:57

I don't remember anybody leaving.

scottishmummy · 08/05/2012 21:56

has got better since a few flouncers went
the egos who tried to tell mnhq how it is...only to leave when mnhq asserted it's their board and they determine the ethos