Why "fun feminism" should be consigned to the rubbish bin

Julie Bindel was only born in 1962, so I doubt she framed her ideas during activism in the sixties. Although it would be quite impressive if she had been leading some kind of demo in infant school.

Mind you I do think the 'slutwalk' would have been better if it had been all men in shoes they couldn't run in, and women standing by and whistling etc.. oh dear, even I am sounding a bit 'on the buses switcheroo'

Wow I have just realised how at odds I am with the infighting older feminists! The mantra has gone from 'its time women who aren't feminists adopt feminism' to 'it's time that feminism was reclaimed by actual feminists'

I'm sorry to say this, but this to me sounds a but 'in my day we really had it hard' .. ie. a bit miserable. Do we call working class people with cars 'hobbiest class warriors'?? Its just an odd angle for someone older who has framed their image of feminism and gender politics in the 1960s to wag their finger at someone learning it now and say that 'the old ways were the best'

How can something as radical as feminism once was have become so conservative??

Nyac, I'm not derailing. I'm only suggesting that language IS important and there is the risk that many feminists won't get beyond the term to actually engage with the issues Julie presents. I think feminists DO need to engage with those issues.

Having known Julie "back in the day," I'd be surprised if she herself would claim any exclusive/superior understanding of Andrea Dworkin's views based on her personal relationship with her.

Yes, I've seen that before, but I think it is a concept that very few liberal or even fun feminists would ascribe to. Most liberal feminists would say that abortion was a women's issue in the same way that poverty was a women's issue.

Actually I wonder what fun fems would say about poverty. It is perhaps not in the range of topics they are particularly engaged with.

Worriedbetty, please expand, that's a new and interesting concept.

Porto, that's the last 4 posts of yours I don't understand. Must be a record, please explain, I obviously don't get the subtlety.

BTW this happens with all radical campaigns - the progression from desire for the majority to accept the radical view to resentment when they do is predictable. It was the sort of running joke about communism that was satirised by Monty Python with the 'people's front of Judea' joke - People want to hold on to their 'radical' identity despite their objectives being (closer to) being achieved.

The Real IRA is another example. Its a sign of the mission working that some people want to cling on to the old battles.

Umm, I like the word 'empowerment'. Besides the misuses so regularly pilloried on here, it has genuine meaning. It signifies a recognition that certain sectors of society have less power than others, and attempts to rectify that. If you dismiss every word that's been abused by politicians, you'll end up with a limited vocabulary.

In a not unrelated vein, I thought the slutwalks successfully raised the profile of rape myths, consent and victim-blaming. The media's predictable focus on superficial aspects of the walks got the story seen (a bit), the message promoted (a bit) and fed into a general tide of changing opinion. You only have to look at the 'sleep sex' thread to see how many rape myths still need busting. The majority of people will not see stunts like slutwalks through the narrowed eyes of radical feminism; they'll go "What's that all about?" And some will pay attention.

Pole dancing's an odd one. I refused to 'like' a friend's FB photo of her prize-winning pole routine (done in gym kit, in a gym) out of feminist principle. I felt like a right old meanie. The woman was a competition gymnast at school and had chosen this readily-available gymnastic activity as part of her self-affirmation programme following an abusive relationship. It's a great deal easier to find an advanced pole dancing class than an advanced gymnastics class. I'm sure this is partly to do with the fact that you only need one piece of equipment per gymnast and can squeeze more students into a room.

Should the activity's provenance taint its sport value? I don't know. If so, for how long? The waltz was originally considered a dance for harlots!

All a bit waffly, sorry, and nothing new from me. I do worry about feminism being unduly negative, though, and potentially self-limiting in consequence.

"I am tired of being told by so-called third-wavers that my feminism is fascist, old hat, irrelevant and man hating. It is nothing personal to me; just that feminism is something that has been central to my life since I was a teenager. I do not want to see its radical edge co-opted by over-privileged, self-serving faux feminists.

These "fun feminists", who have little or no idea about the theory or practice of this movement, take advantage of the benefits that radicals have fought long and hard for, whilst contributing nothing. In fact, they are damaging to other women, and are destroying progress won by those of us who do not weep when men disapprove of our views."

This is exactly the part I have a problem with. Just because other women who believe in feminism do not agree with you doesn't mean we weep when men disagree with our views. How ridiculous and patronising.

NTFS, for some reason I don't think of this site as being indicative of what is going on in feminism.

Nyac, I do think that there are some issues where all feminists do tend to come together - reproductive rights for example.

lol nyac people are engaging just not on your terms maybe
you see thats how threads go, we all interject,discuss etc.
we don't necessarily need guided back to your op and more c&p quotes. why don't you actively go with flow see where convo goes

Seahouses Yes the evidence for that is on this thread and others on this site.

Interesting thread. Too late for me as I have womanly duties to attend to in the morning ;)

porto I'm beginning to warm to radical feminist humour :)

fem topic bingo has someone been called troll?
clickety click
nowt like a good bit of youse this and dat to enrich a thread

I don't know or care who is troll
but you know what accusation of troll is equally lame and distracting

NTFS, do you think that there is a troubling split in feminism?