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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

AIBU to treat male and female posters differently on feminism threads?

142 replies

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 05/05/2012 11:40

First of all, I want to make this clear that this only applies to feminims threads.

When a woman poster posts comments where it is clear that she doesn't understand feminism or her arguments are contradictory, I am more than happy to spend lots of time gently explaining my point of view. I know I still have a lot to learn about feminism and part of that is hearing what other women have to say. And I know that when I started posting comments about feminism on the internet I didn't really understand it, and many of my comments will have been contradictory.

Some lucky women grow up being taught about feminism - usually by their mothers. But for most of us, we learn about feminism as adults and as we grow up. And as feminists I do think we owe it to women to explain our point of view gently. I know not all women will agree with us, but most of us became feminists because of other women taking the time to do this.

I feel quite differently about men posting on feminist threads. When men post comments that show they don't really understand feminism or are contradictory, often they just derail threads. On a feminist thread I don't feel women should have to take the time to explain to men about feminism or argue with men. It should be a space for women to discuss feminism. I should clarify that I am not talking about men being abusive, just men not understanding feminism.

But then when I post something to a man like - you obviously don't understand feminism and are not contributing anything, I just feel guilty. Is this just my socialisation telling me I should be nice to men coming through, but my basic analysis is correct? Or is my analysis wrong? I am genuinely interested in the views of other feminists. If you are a man and you post I will ignore you. This is not a thread about men. It is a thread about what as feminists it is reasonable for us to do.

Sorry this is such a long post.

OP posts:
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 05/05/2012 13:49

NYAC - Thats kind of how I feel. i am actually happy to discuss feminism with men in other forums and in rl. I suppose I think om numsnet in the feminist threads we should get a chance to discuss things with just women for a change.

OP posts:
Nyac · 05/05/2012 13:46

Women and men aren't in the same position of course. So treating everybody "equally" will generally mean that women will lose out, because women are already in a disadvantaged position to men.

Men are trained to dominate and expect their voices to be listened to and heard, and they can get very shirty and sometimes even vengeful if it doesn't happen. I've seen it happen on here sometimes.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 05/05/2012 13:44

Iamsherlocked Sorry was meant to be Brian Smith not Brain!

OP posts:
IAmSherlocked · 05/05/2012 13:42

Brain Smith is a man because - women don't have brains?? Confused

IAmSherlocked · 05/05/2012 13:41

I was nodding to Pride's post - I would be very unhappy if someone refused to recognise or engage with my opinion just because I am a woman.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 05/05/2012 13:40

Or in other feminist forums where people use actual names, real or not, as their user name. So in this scenario I would assume a name such as Brain Smith is a man.

OP posts:
EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 05/05/2012 13:37

I should make it clearer that I only do this where I know the OP is a man e.g. where they say they are a man either on the thread in question or elsewhere.

OP posts:
PrideOfChanur · 05/05/2012 12:49

I have the same problem ThePieSmuggler.One of the basics of my feminist beliefs is that people should be treated equally regardless of gender,and while I know it can be more complicated than this,I would be furious if posters wouldn't discuss certain topics with me because I was a woman,so I can't justify doing that to a man.It makes me feel hypocritical
I know not everyone feels like this,though.

Nyac · 05/05/2012 12:49

I think you're better addressing the opinion rather than the person's sex.

Although there are male posters who come on here displaying a great deal of male privilege and entitlement and obviously only want to get in the way of the feminism. But then again, that's behaviour that needs to be addressed rather than someone's sex.

msrisotto · 05/05/2012 12:45

The thing is Thepie, men often dominate conversations in real life, this has actually been proven in research. This forum and feminist discussions in general are an opportunity for women to dominate and itis important that they do because it is easy for men NOT to understand our point of view because they don't experience institutional sexism first hand and also because women are the ones leading the fight as we have the most vested interest and we need to do this for ourselves. It's nice if they can support the cause but they should not dominate or derail. There are plenty of resources for them to access to learn. Some people are cagey about men having a big part in a feminist discussion as it can be seen as muscling in and unfortunately because many men argue againstequality because they perceive it to threaten their advantage.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 05/05/2012 12:33

Would second Takver's point, also having been accused of hairy-handed tendencies.

It can be a very effective way to silence other women who simply don't agree with you.

ThePieSmuggler · 05/05/2012 12:31

To me, as a first time poster on feminism (gulp!) what strikes me is that perhaps I don't understand the difference between equality and feminism. In my opinion OP your behaviour is sexist- you treat a poster differently purely because of their sex. I understand your reasoning and don't mean to sound critical, but this is how it appears to me. I'll watch this thread with interest and see what others have to say.

Takver · 05/05/2012 12:29

X post with Pride.

I do definitely agree that ignoring the intentional de-railers is the way to go wherever possible, though.

Takver · 05/05/2012 12:28

How do you know who is a man, though unless they say so?

Genuine question - a couple of times people have thought I'm a man (not on feminism threads, and it wasn't relevant to the discussion, only 'there's a bloke on here who says X' sort of thing). I did point out I'm an enthusiastic Mooncup user (as per my posting history), but I was still a bit bemused by it . . .

PrideOfChanur · 05/05/2012 12:26

I think that the attitude to someone who genuinely doesn't understand feminism and is asking,or whose arguments are contradictory,should be the same whether the poster is a man or a woman.
I can see the advantage in women being able to discuss feminism in a feminist space,but I also think 50% of society is male and if you are not going to debate and explain your beliefs to with and to a large group of people however defined you are not going to get far.( I know about the trolling and derailing but that doesn't change my opinion on this.)
I don't see why posting to a man that he doesn't understand feminism should make you feel guilty though!
By the way,how are you going to tell if we are men or not,to decide whether to ignore us? Smile

Crushinghard · 05/05/2012 12:24

Rightly or wrongly, I feel the same way.

Gay40 · 05/05/2012 12:19

The skill of ignoring men is underrated, in my opinion.

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