I don't appear to have the typical female experience I'd be interested in what some of you have to say

LFB - no that's not what I meant at all.

Have I said that it's wrong, Nyac?

Like I said that's fine.

You don't have to agree with feminist analysis. Nobody does. That doesn't mean though that feminists shouldn't be making it, or that it's wrong.

As someone who is not a regular poster on this section, or known or anything else i have to say that this thread reads as though you wanted to be able to say youd been attacked, victimised, hurt etc by feminists. That didnt happen yet you've still managed to claim it. Well done you.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

That's fine. Nobody is asking you too.

Some of us, quite a lot of us do see it like that, and for us, that is what is important.

I don't think though that saying that a violent man is supported and encouraged by the structures of patriarchy is taking the focus off of him.

It's a bit like arguing that pointing out that the Nazis were driven by evil anti-semitism in their genocide of jewish people is taking the focus off the Nazis and on to the Jewish victims. If someone has an underlying belief system to support their cruelty that is also reflected and encouraged in society at large, then it wouldn't make sense not to point it out.

But I just don't see it like that

I just don't.

What happened to me happened because my ex is an arse. Not particularly because I'm female, but because he's an arse.

And by making it about me being female, that's moving the focus to me, and taking it off the fact that he is an arse.

IYSWIM?

Just that. The fact of having a female body.

Being female in itself is a real experience. It's not the same for example as being male.

It's like the fundamental experience of being a human, which isn't the same as being a blackbird or a vole say.

What is the "fundamental experience of being female" though?

Surely it's societally different based on location, upbringing and a whole gamete of other factors?

And as such, then there is no fundamental experience?

I think the thing you have to remember with feminism is that it's a group/class analysis, so the idea that individual women have different experiences doesn't actually undermine its political viewpoint. It's demonstrable that many many women share the same experiences of oppression within our male-dominated world, it's not something that's imaginary. Women and girls are treated differently and less well or even harmed because of misogyny and male domination e.g.

Female genital mutilation
Rape
Domestic violence
Forced marriage
Prostitution
Pornography
The wage gap
The power gap (men hold the majority of power)

and so on. It would be difficult to argue that these are down to individuals when in fact men have created structures and laws to enforce these.

Also to answer your question hathor, I suppose the one thing that all women and girls share is the fundamental female experience of being female, and having a female body, with everything that that can entail.

"using hurt feelings as a weapon against others is manipulative and underhand" - agree.

But you know, I wasn't being treated in an objective, fair minded and respectful way.

And I apologised, repeatedly, and had already made my feelings clear - and yet I was still attacked over and over.

Seems to me like an apology isn't enough.

and using hurt feelings as a weapon against others is manipulative and underhand imo. anyone can fall into doing it sometimes - it can be a response from a position of hurt that overtakes our reasonableness or fair mindedness briefly until we step back and reassess.

we're all adults, we all carry our own feelings and take responsibility for them and try to tread carefully around other people's whilst honouring our own.

again - no one has said your feelings are less valid. everyone has validated your feelings. feelings are feelings - we all have them and we can all try and be sensitive to them. i personally don't think that when talking about politics and serious stuff feelings are the best guides and dictators of what can be said and what is real. there is a balancing act of being respectful to one another's feelings but also of taking responsibility and ownership of our own feelings and trying to remain objective, respectful to others and fair minded.

But my words/intentions/feelings were also twisted.

Does that mean because I'm not a regular poster on here, and because I don't identify as strongly as others with a feminist viewpoint and am trying to find my way, that my feelings are less valid?

note 'imo' and 'seem'.

well yeah it's my opinion that's what discussion boards are about often. especially when someone actively courts other people's opinions by starting a thread.

i posted to support someone who is getting a very rough time on here and is having their words/intentions/feelings twisted imo.

no one has said your views hold less weight. you seem to be talking to a straw man rather than the people who take the time to talk to you.

Again, SAF, that is your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to it.

I don't see why my views should hold any less weight.

And if it's an impossible thread, why are you posting?

everyone has acknowledged your feelings and their validity. everyone. they've just refused to give them precedence over other people's rights to express their own feelings and views. especially when those views have been asked for and then when given attacked for being imposed on you.

this is a bit of an impossible thread.

That, SAF, is your opinion.

It is not how I perceived it.

And if her feelings that I attacked her and upset her are valid, then so are mine.

damn i posted again after saying i wouldn't now i will be accused of god only knows what.

she wasn't attacking you she was expressing her feelings about something you said - because she too is a human being with feelings that are valid in the same way as you wish to be seen as one.

why is that confusing?

prolific use of face doesn't turn someone else's valid points into attacks.

And you

probably best. wishing you love and light x

Chibi - please don't take this the wrong way but I am not going to engage with you about this any more.

I don't think it's helpful or supportive to either of us and we are just going round in circles.

You just keep attacking and attacking and attacking, after i have apologised, explained, i really don't know what else i can do. I am glad i am feeling stronger today, your relentless pursuit of (not sure what?) is v threatening

And before you jumped all over my ill-judged post I had already posted to say

"hathorinareddress69 Mon 16-Apr-12 17:06:56
No I don't for one second think that it's anything to do with me that I haven't been assaulted that I'm better than anyone who has - please don't think that.

I don't for one second think anyone who has been is over-sensitive.

I was just commenting that the female experiences referred to on the other thread were not my personal experience.

I did not and would not judge anyone or think I was better than anyone else (and if you've been on threads I've been on in the last few days I think I've demonstrated that but if I haven't I'm happy to be corrected)"

Before you even posted.