I don't appear to have the typical female experience I'd be interested in what some of you have to say

Where did I say the most important thing in the world was style?

not everything is about how it sounds - there are more important things in the world than style. substance!

the gender/biology connection is that society shoved that gender on you because of your biology. you didn't get to choose it - they saw you had a fanjo and xx chromosones and shoved it on you. so they are connected. and then they used further of your biological realities to shove more of it on you. periods, fertility, pregnancy, motherhood, being a wife, etc etc.

they were all mapped out and superimposed ON to your biology. if you had had a different biological sex you would have had a very different gender imposed on you and different sites (biological features and experiences) on which to impose that.

Are you aware of how dismissive and patronising that sounds?

well then it is unconscious that your logic is so contradictory then. but it really is. it's hard to follow and discuss because the 'rules' or underlying principles or logic are constantly shifting. it's like trying to build a house on sinking sand or something.

I'm not pretending anything.

And if you really haven't had that kind of stuff fed you (not by your mil - but in your formative, conditioning times) then I think you are really lucky.

I don't see my kids escaping it.

so why are you pretending not to understand how gendered sexual and other violent assault is, at a societal and at an individual level?

feelings are just as valid definetely agree there. But I still think it would be different. Not necessarily because of inherent inbuilt differences but mainly because of societal conditioning and expectations. (Hen pecked hubby jokes make it difficult for a man to admit assault from his wife, Women told to suck it up and think of england - that type of thing)

No. As I have learned on the Trans threads, gender and sex are two completely different things.

I only ever meant this to be a thread for me to consider how I felt.

you say it's not gender specific and then you talk about biology as if they are not two entirely separate things - gender is not a biological construct is it?

But I don't view it as biology related particularly - it's assault, regardless of the biology of the person.

And the feelings of one group are no less valid than the feelings of the other - and the point in the quote you took was that it was in a context of a discussion where it had been postulated that the consequences for women were different and I was pointing out that both sexes can be assaulted and that the feelings are just as valid, regardless of the gender of the victim.

Again , not saying that's all experiences/feelings are one and the same - just that it's shared.

But it is a shared experience with all those who have been through it - in case of general assault anyone, in case of biology related assault - someone who shares the biology?

Yes but it's not gender specific.

But if the feelings are the same, then isn't it a shared human experience?

It wouldn't matter if someone was male or female.

Their feelings would be the same.

How is that inconsistent with what I have said?

I know it's bad form to talk aboout posts from another thread, but I am. Please feel free to ignore if you don't want to answer.

I was lurking on the "what makes a woman a women" thread and came across this:

hathorkicksass Wed 18-Apr-12 14:29:03
How is it different?

A male who had been subjected to a sexual assault by a woman would feel the same as a woman who had been attacked by a man surely?

I think it's your post OP? Just wanted to ask that on the one hand you think your experience is different from that of all other women (which it is because we do react differently) but on the other hand you think that all men and women would feel the same on being assaulted?

No personal difference, no gender/biology based difference , nothing?

In a way it's consistant - you seem to be taking biology out of the equation all together (not that I agree), I wonder why? On the other hand you are also taking personal responses out of the equation - which is a big deal for you.

and yes - saying something happened to you because of your female biology doesn't make it about you any more than saying someone was killed in a genocide because of their ethnicity makes it about them. racism is directed towards those with a certain skin colour or ethnicity that they were born with - it's not about them though and denying it was about their skin colour would deny them the ability to mobilise and raise consciousness as a group.

i think sisterhood is an outcome of consciousness raising and a conscious effort then to overcome our conditioning in dealing with each other. it is counter to what we are trained for so it takes effort and work to strive for it and 'be' part of it.

SAF - what do you want me to say? That I agree when I don't?

As far as women being horrible to other women - of course thay can be and are. My MIL et all upholds the patriachy with great vigour. It's a different culture and the women do group together much more and the men are out doing 'men' things - but the sister hood doesn't mean that she won't be mean to anyone else. All the dil's are expected to stay in line and be slaves and there's a strict hierachy. if someone's h mistreats she may sympathise etc but will not say a word to the son.

When my sister had her daughter some of the neighbuors (women) sympathised and told her to 'find out next time'.

They all believe that they are inferior to men and that's the way it is.

So sisterhood doesn't mean being nice to women at all. That's not a given anywhere.

I experienced loads of sexism when I was there (and some here in the UK)- it was because of my being a woman - but not my fault. It was because they view a woman as a,b,c. Not because I was a,b,c. Them being bastards and them being conditioned to see women as their slaves, sex objects whatever.... And I was/am a woman. Whatever that means....

i haven't seen much sign of trying to understand. lots of lashing out and accusations and much 'that's your opinion. i don't agree'. and lots of double standards.

WEll, LFB, that's your opinion.

So what do you want me to say?

I started this thread as a musing to try to understand - obviously that was a mistake and I shouldn't have.

And no, im not much of a 'sisterhood' type either, so i cant be arsed to be as patient and tolerant of your strange ranting as the other women here have been, you know...the feminists.