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Original poster

Extreme Male Brain

86 replies

StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 14:52

Can anyone help me put an end to my DH's indoctrination on this matter?

ApParently it makes perfect sense but it sounds about as sensible as when the US started publishing 'evidence' that black people were intellectually inferior.

Many Tia!

OP posts:
OneHandFlapping · 15/04/2012 16:29

I have partially skim read a paper by him on the subject here. And even to me it is evident he makes no allowance for nature vs nurture.

Maybe a baby is more likely to be displaying innate abilities, but when it comes to the sections on mens' career choices in science, IT and construction demonstrating the principal of extreme male brain, the discussion seems unscientific and subjective to me.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:28

He's a scientist?

He's read the literature? Are you wanting to question the methodology? The conclusions?

garlicnutter · 15/04/2012 16:28

"The E-S theory has been tested using the Empathy Quotient (EQ) and Systemizing Quotient (SQ), and generates 5 different 'brain types' depending on the presence or absence of discrepancies between their scores on E or S. E-S profiles show reliable sex differences in the general population (more females showing the profile E>S and more males showing the profile S>E).[1] "

"A final criticism is that people with autism may not match the description of being 'extreme males' because they are not more aggressive or more physically masculine than others. Again, this misunderstands the 'extreme male brain' theory which does not argue that people with autism show an extreme of all male traits (such as height, aggression, visuospatial skills, or muscularity) but only on E-S measures: below average cognitive empathy and intact or above average systemizing.

To date there are still too few studies of women with Asperger Syndrome (AS) but a recent cognitive study confirms this profile (PLOS-One, June 2011, Volume 6), that women with AS show elevated levels of a precursor of testosterone (androstenedione)[17] and show a different protein profile in relation to sex hormones[18]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing%E2%80%93systemizing_theory#The_extreme_male_brain_theory_of_autism

I have no axe to grind on this: I come out in the 'average' range for females on these tests but have slightly elevated levels of testosterone for a woman. I also get slightly elevated scores on some autism-related behaviours. I don't know whether the two factors are related, but you have to remember theories like this are based on observation. Nobody's really claiming that gender dictates a certain kind of brain, only observing that more men have a certain type of brain and more women have another.
Also, it's a proportional test not an absolute.

Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:25

Thank you for the link to cordelia!

He doesn't say a lot except that it makes sense how the science is presented.
I told him that so did the research on higher domestic violence levels in working class families being linked to 'breeding', 'class' and 'IQ' but that was subsequently found to be bollocks too!

OP posts:
AliceHurled · 15/04/2012 16:24

FFS!

AliceHurled · 15/04/2012 16:22

was a webchat with Cordelia. Might help. Or google her debunking his work.

doctordwt · 15/04/2012 16:22

Oh sorry OP, didn't answer your Q - ask him whether he thinks he's more WankerBrain or DoormatBrain? That might get him thinking over the more twatty elements of the hypothesis.

doctordwt · 15/04/2012 16:21

Yes. If he'd called them WankerBrain and DoormatBrain, then we'd know where we were.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:19

What does he say about it?

ArthurPewty · 15/04/2012 16:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AliceHurled · 15/04/2012 16:17

Tell him we said so Grin

Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:16

Anyway. How do I show DH that it is all bollocks?

OP posts:
Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:16

Or is it cousin?

OP posts:
Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:15

He does have a very talented brother.

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AliceHurled · 15/04/2012 16:14

How could he be expected to know we would all leap to wild conclusions that male meant male? Poor lamb.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 15/04/2012 16:11

Yeah Alice. Basically he wrote a book of sexist nonsense, labelling one supposed "type" as BLOKE BRAIN and the other (only two brain types for SBC apparently) as LADYBRAIN, saying all the BLOKEBRAINERS should get nice [well-paying] jobs like CEOs and surgeons and engineers, and the LADYBRAINERS should go and be lovely [underpaid/unpaid] nurses and infant school teachers and carers.

When people pointed out that this was basically the same old sexism rebranded as "science" he said just because he called it "the male brain" that didn't mean that all men had it, or that only men could have it, and vice versa. What a dim bunch we are, eh? Thinking that because he said "male/female brain", and because people are also labelled as "male" or "female" that those two things might have some kind of connection.

WasabiTillyMinto · 15/04/2012 16:11

having read Delusions of Gender, i think even according to SBC, only 48% of males have a 'male' brain... sounds a bit wrong to me.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:11

Not according to his psychometrics. Psychometrics being a whole other can of worms.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:10

Then you are also an outlier...

Or rather not average. Which doesn't actually negate his argument, however he chooses to express it.

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:09

He even says something like "the type S brain, which we will call the male brain, although both men and women can have male brains" (I am paraphrasing madly...) And I remember thinking eh? So why call it male brain? But what do I know?

Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:09

In fact, surely 'most' women are good at both due to their huge amount of practice. To run a family inc the childcare logistics requires both.

OP posts:
Original poster
StarshitTerrorise · 15/04/2012 16:07

But I pride myself on excelling in both S and E! Plenty things I don't excel in btw, but wouldn't be able to chose which of the above two I was.

OP posts:
AliceHurled · 15/04/2012 16:05

Exactly. All the terms in the world, why go for one so easily confused Hmm

TheFallenMadonna · 15/04/2012 16:04

Not sure why he didn't stick to type S and type E brains, but less catchy I guess, which clearly outweighs the potential for misconception... Hmm

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