Male nurses supervising female patients/female nurses supervising male patients

.. and that's just when the wards are allowed to put out bank/agency requests, often due to the budget there are bank/agency "freezes" and they have to struggle with too few staff without even trying for cover. Maternity cover is already banned on most wards I work on

and it's even harder for them to fill mental health shifts, so much so that they offer the shifts out to ANY nurses (adult/learning disabilities.. as in not even trained in mental healthy) because they just cannot cover it, and even then as the shift gets closer they'll also offer it out to HCAs because it's better than nothing

yes. every week I work shifts with bank/agency request unfilled, I get texts every day asking for ANY hours I can do. I work full time on the staff bank - which means I am covering staff SHORTAGES.. full time! I always have work and could have more if I had more time to work.

you'ld be surprized at how many people I speak to who are "desperate" for work who turn their nose up when I tell them that agencies I know are crying out for staff

there was a thread a while back about what job people would NEVER do, and care work was one of the most frequently cited ones

really?you reckon in a recession cant get staff to work
now that would be suprising

"2. book male staff if reqd"
PMSL! they have a job getting ANY staff to cover most shifts, if you specify male only to the staff bank/agency then you have even less chance of getting cover leaving ALL patients in danger because the ratios are not met (which happens anyway when sex of worker to be booked isn't specified!)

I have to been in hospital fairly often for various intimate examinations, catheters, etc. I am a man and never had a man do any of these things - its always been women doing it for 20 years. I really don't have any choice but don't mind.

I can see why female patients have to be protected and TBH I think it is one of the reasons men stay away from professions like childcare, primary school teaching and nursing. I just could not be doing with the suspicion all the time.

Mind you, having to have an advanced CRB check in order to lecture to a mixed class of business school students over the age of 18 is still something that does my head in.

scottishmummy or anyone who works in a hospital for that matter...just curious, i have a question or two.
i've never been in hospital.
is the patients modesty ever taken into account in these circumstances of either sex or is it all about their vunerability and the possible bad behavoir of the staff?
also with male patients , say for example he needs to pee but cant get up, is your modesty simply left at the hospital gates?
also, would a male pateint actually prefer a female nurse simply because he would want his penis to be touched by a man?

a number of options

1. move staff or students about
2. book male staff if reqd

and who works with the males on that word then?

it's rare to have no males on shift
in that case a male could be swooped from another ward

its both

plus, well there aren't always 2 males on duty in nursing, some shifts there's no male nurses, but there's always two females, so a rule saying there must always be a male staff with a male patient couldn't be enforced.

unfortunately abuses occur
tiny minority staff
the vast majority staff are v committed,and competent and are reviled by such abuse of position

i feel for the true careing male nurses though ,and the long dark cloud of suspicion that falls over them

after reading stillthinking i'm rethinking my position here. when i hear stuff like 'men rape etc" my first reaction is to suggest that it's exagerated , because i find it hard to belive that so many members of my sex would rape , and, if it's true, how that will reflect on me. but of course clearly some men rape/abuse etc and they will , if they are smart endevour to plant themselves in a position where they can get away with it. Nurses of psycolodgicaly unstable patients have a situation where they can abuse and then sya "well she would say that , she's nuts "

that's v sad then in that case
pts need to receive respect and care ESP when vulnerable
there are unfortunately poor staff with bad practice, however they are tiny minority

am only speaking from my ow experience of course

no, that's not true at all.most significant risk is with other unwell vulnerable pts

single sex wards means only single sex patients though, and it's usually the staff you need to worry about not other patients

had to acknowledge your post stillthinking
how dreadful what a shocking abuse to vulnerable woman, how is your sister now?she's fortunate to have a supportive strong family to have been there for her

good practice is female pts not solely on special obs by male staff
this protects both the staff and the Pt.
nhs trusts have no mandatory requirement to provide same sex wards, although it is recommended a designated female only area be provided.

these measures arose out of campaigning for female only designated areas, and longer term to aim for single sex wards. establishing single sex unit will incur cistern, and time to adapt and modify existing building. and formula for ensuring optimum female bed occupancy and projected bed requirements

Just been reading this thread and felt compelled to tell you my sisters story.

My sister was under section in a psychiatric unit, suffering from schizophrenia, she was very very unwell at times. She was groomed and sexually assaulted by a male nurse over the course of a year, this included sex in a stairwell of the hospital, in her room and in her flat when she had a few hours leave. This was a well known London psychiatric unit.

Had there been a rule stopping male nurses from working with female patients alone it could never of happened.
When she finally disclosed it to the staff she was hounded with accusations of lying, and it was we as her family who
Notified the police, he was convicted and sentenced to 18 months in jail.
This was only three years ago.

I know that most male nurses are not predators of course, but I deeply wish that my sister had been protected from one who was.

Sorry it's behind a paywall.

This is an interesting article on this problem. Certainly since single sex wards are no longer the norm.

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/440095

And certainly we can never forget the recent events as highlighted by Panorama, in the now closed Bristol Care Home.

Lilka, I don't think there is any question of banning male health care practitioners from working with female patients in any discipline. It's about reducing risks - including risk for the worker should a patient make an allegation against them. This need not be specifically about sexual assault, either.

Something I neglected to mention above that's really important is patient choice. If a male patient doesn't want say to have a urinary catheter fitted by a woman and there is a male practitioner available who can do it, they should have the choice.

The difficulty, however, is about the availability of male and female health care practitioners. Within general nursing, I think fewer than 5% of frontline roles are held by men - a higher proportion are male in mental health. Similarly, women are under represented amongst the ranks of surgeons. So, just as it may not always be possible for a woman to be offered a female gynaecologist, it may not be possible for a man to be offered a bed bath by two male carers or even one male and one female.

If the rule is that a female patient can have two women or one man and one woman - then I don't think the male nurses are restricted? In that they can still work with all the female patients, just might work with them less often. I could see the upset that might be caused if they were totally banned, no one likes being made to feel like a predator (trust me, it really hurts). It would seem fairer and safer to have the same rule for male patients though - either two men or one man and one woman