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Original poster

Which CBeebies White Men Would You Sack To Make Room For Diversity?

185 replies

FoodUnit · 13/04/2012 17:04

I'm fed up with the surplus white able-bodied men in children's programmes - especially those who really aren't all that. I mean Justin Fletcher and Chris from Show Me Show Me seem to have got in on talent - but Andy from Andy's Wild Adventures - what's the deal with him? Same for Mr Bloom and Alex. It would be really easy to replace these white men with more diverse presenters.

The same goes for cartoons like Mike the Knight- why don't they, just at the commissioning stage, have a process where they ask: Does this character actually NEED to be an able-bodied white male? If not, they could change them to somebody other than an ABWM. Wouldn't that be great?

So I'm just interested in knowing who else you think could be binned without any great loss in the name of diversity?

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Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 12:22

I should say, Mr Bloom make Me feel ill

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Shakey1500 · 17/04/2012 12:21

Call it tokenism if it suits but it's still a fact that they are there. Positive role models. Even Stevens on Balamory.

Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 12:21

This is a bit of an aside here, but I complained to my DH that the way Mr Blooms sings seems to be full of suggestion and innuendo "watch them grow, pop along and [lechy] say hello" and "lovely fennel called Joan. Hello my dear [lech] haven't you grown"...
My DH then cracked a joke
"what does Mr Bloom say when he takes his pants off at night?"
"I dunno"
[sung]"Meet the veggies!"

Since then he makes Mr Bloom feel a bit ill!

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SardineQueen · 17/04/2012 12:14

I don't get that about mr bloom thingy either

They are all matey with the talking veggies and tucking them in at night and singing to them and they're growing them to eat Confused

It seems odd.

I don't pay much attention to it, does the eventual fate of the vegetables ever get mentioned?

Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 12:10

Who says they're sacked? They may choose to move on

And the logical next question is: Why?

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Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 12:08

It's not all bad though is it?

Pointing to a bit of tokenism doesn't hide the glaring, overwhelming inequality.

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Shakey1500 · 17/04/2012 11:52

It's not all bad though is it?

Balamory- yes, Miss Hoolie works in a nursery but there's Edie MacCready who drives the bus and has travelled extensively, Susie and Penny run their own business but don't get me started on Penny's singing Josie Jump is a fitness/sports bod.

Katy cooks but so do Big Cook Little Cook, both male.

Sid is male and black

Tree Fu Tom- Ariela runs the farm

There's more positives I'm sure. Not saying things can't be improved but there is diversity.

bronze · 17/04/2012 11:48

Who says they're sacked? They may choose to move on

5madthings · 17/04/2012 11:43

cringy is the word yes, i have to say i dont really like same smile but i do think the idea is a good one.

and i have noticed there is more inclusion of sn children i the prog now, it used to be that they were just on 'something special' with justin etc but on myr blooms nursery they have had some sn children on recently, the children that come in to help etc.

i have to say mr blooms nursery makes me laugh they they talk and befriend the vegetables etc but the underlying theme is to encourage children to EAT them!! so yes make them all friendly and chatty and like a real person type charachter and then EAT them! tho i guess its the same as eating meat :)

people have complained about tree fu tom? or whatever its called, i havent seen that yet, what are the issues with it?

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FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 11:42

^For basic cbeebies presenting though, in it's entire existence
there have been 7 women and 5 men presenters^

If that's the case it just shows women have been sacked with more frequency and the blokes get a job for life!

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Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 11:39

I agree that the woman on Same Smile is a good role model - but it does seem a bit tokenistic (and I find it a bit cringy the whole panda thing - but to her credit she really carries it off with aplomb and enthusiasm, even if the kids look a bit confused as to why they need to cuddle a random toy panda). I can't think of any other females of a similar background on at the moment. The only programme I think does fairly well is Ballamory where you sometimes get Shock two people who aren't white having a conversation with eachother, and Archie the inventor lives in the pink house, and they do have a genuinely disabled actor. Where it does fall down is the professions: Male- police officer, painter & decorator, inventor. Female: nursery teacher, shop assistant, teacher (gym).

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bronze · 17/04/2012 11:36

Agree witht he points about the actual programs

For basic cbeebies presenting though, in it's entire existence
there have been 7 women and 5 men presenters

5madthings · 17/04/2012 11:24

what about the woman out of 'same smile'? does she count as a good female role model, tho the fact that she rides round on a three wheel back with cuddly bears on the back may loose her some street cred....

the zingzillas is just AWFUL!!

my ds4 is a big fan of thundercats, not strictly toddler tv! he is 4, its on cartoon network? anyway cheetarah is a good female role model and one of the two little thundercats, wilykit and wilykat is also a girl, not sure which one but theyare just as good as the boy thundercats at fighting etc, and cheetarah has a 'staff' aka a big stick which makes her the ultimate in cool to my 4 yr old ds4!

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FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 11:19

Yes Waybleedinbaloo!!! Arghhh.... Its so bad I think we almost didn't dare mention it! I hate it so much. Why do the boys get the equipment that require skill and mastery, and the girls in really put-on submissive giggly voices, just say "pretty flowers"... and nothing else. Its like they are actively trying to be offensive.... Or perhaps they write an episode and someone says "oh look you wrote that whole script and only Yojojo and Noktok spoke" - "ah never mind - I'll just stick Lau Lau in saying 'pretty flowers' somewhere and the jobs a goodun."
"sweet - ker-ching!"

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EldritchCleavage · 17/04/2012 11:11

Can't believe no one has mentioned Waybuloo. God, I loathe that programme!

The two female chracters are submissive, passive and sterotyped 'caring' characters. They do floaty decorative stuff while the two male characters do the fun things like driving little cars etc. The programme perpetuates that 'men do, women watch' dynamic. And they have breathy little girl voices. One is pink, one is lilac. Aargh!

SillyBeardyDaddyman · 17/04/2012 11:03

For all the captain barnacles haters out there, can I just point out that polar bears are black. They have white fur yes, but their skin is black. Don't let him go!

Original poster
FoodUnit · 17/04/2012 10:58

I definitely want to complain - I just need to compress the multi-faceted issue into a communicable point. Well done Lavendercakes!

I've been thinking about how they really need some sort of procedure, where must justify every character for every show commissioned (programmes cost enough to produce, I hardly think it would be prohibitively time/money-consuming). The programmes would be so much better if they did. Imagine if 'Granpa In My Pocket' was called 'Granma In My Pocket' and set in Southall rather than 'Sunnysands' and the characters were Sikhs? I'd definitely watch that without feeling continuously irritated - and focussing on how annoyingly dust-gathering all the ornaments are in their house).

The process would be like this: So 1) do the lead characters need to be male for this programme to work? Okay, so the producer might say something like yes because we need to perpetuate male dominance by promoting intergenerational male-bonding through shared secrecy give good role models for male relationships. 2) do the female characters all have to promote stereotypes of women being fickle, silly, crazy? It would be hard to justify that. 3) does the family all have to be white? the producer will probably come out with some thinly-disguised racist clap-trap similar to Midsomer Murders, saying it harks back to a nostalgia of sunny beach holidays in Dorset say - we are trying to take the focus away from London-centricity to be more inclusive of the rest of the country, then the conclusion is that it could be set up in Bradford, with a family of asian origin. And by the same process, cover Disability and sexuality.

There was a webchat five or six years ago with the creative directior (or similar) of Cbeebies who commented that they'd been losing audience share of boys to competing channels and had had to put measures in place to claw them back.

This just makes me so angry. I am sure that it is just a trickle down of all that anti-feminist backlash propaganda since the 1990s (bringing us new lads/porn is healthy for men so put up with it frigid, jealous minghers, the rhetoric of 'poor failing boys in a 'feminised' system of education' shit girls are doing bloody well with less oppression - must do something to stop that, etc, etc) and then the Beeb just caving into parents who fell for it - stopping their sons from watching 'girly' programmes - AT THE EXPENSE OF GIRLS AND FEMALE PROGRESS TOWARDS EQUALITY!

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SardineQueen · 17/04/2012 09:25

oooh there was a massive ding-dong about small potatoes before Grin

I looked on their website and was vindicated Grin

You'd think an adult woman might have better things to do with her time.... Wink

ninjasquirrel · 17/04/2012 08:50

Just been reminded of this thread - 'small potatoes' was on and it turns out that 3 are male and just the tiny one female. That's real dedication to the cause of gender imbalance.

MooBaaWoofCheep · 16/04/2012 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crackedceiling · 16/04/2012 22:19

So pleased that Come Outside is still being shown. Made my day that did!

ElephantsAreMadeOfElements · 16/04/2012 22:15

There was a webchat five or six years ago with the creative directior (or similar) of Cbeebies who commented that they'd been losing audience share of boys to competing channels and had had to put measures in place to claw them back. I wonder if there's a connection?

Cracken they still show Come Outside. Not all the time, but it's definitely still on rotation with the other programmes.

margoandjerry · 16/04/2012 22:14

Agree. We love Tree Fu Tom in our house but why does Ariella have to be pretty and sparkly....Ugh. My DD 5 feels obliged to say she loves Ariella when actually she loves being Tree Fu Tom and so do I

solidgoldbrass · 16/04/2012 22:08

Story Makers was pretty good for diversity, as well: presenters were as many female as male and all black, and the stories often featured female leads, too.

Having watched a lot (gaaaaah) of Cbeebies over the past six years or so, I have noticed a definite tendency of it getting more sexist or at least more heavily into gender myths.

crackedceiling · 16/04/2012 22:04

Does anyone remember Aunty Mabel and Pippin? Two female characters who always got the job done. Mabel had Pippin as a pet dog. We knew a Pippin in real life too! OH! Smile.

Me and my two girls at that time just loved this series and years later we still talk about it. Such a lovely programme.