This Brick person. Has the world (and specifically this bit of it) gone completely barking mad?

Yes funnily enough I have been considering the issue of genuine discussion versus provocative discussion

I have been thinking myself that sometimes maybe with sensitive issues i have been too quick to assume someone is brimming for a fight when actually it was a genuine question. It can become a bit "them and us" on mumsnet on a number if issues which ultimately serves no purpose than a point scoring exercise

She behaved as society secretly wanted her to behave. She set herself up as that acme of perfection, the Beautiful Woman, and made it better by being nasty about other women.Nothing like a good catfight to make women insecure and men feel smug.

You are like me, Starwisher, though we may well come across as being polar opposites on the MN surface IYSWIM. You care. You have had a pretty awful hand of cards dealt to you in life.

But I did learn, probably through MN to be honest, that I definitely need to show a lot more tolerance to those I wish to have discussions with, or who wish to have discussions with me; and that what sometimes gets my back up initially is actually really good food for thought; and that it's best to ignore the people who are out to provoke because they are using me as entertainment.

And I am still learning to tell the difference between them...

, I have found mn at times very kind, supportive as well as practical -but have also experienced people on here laughing and calling me "whiny" when discussing very sensitive issues around abuse of myself and my child. I left mn for a long time as I found it to much.I have also been so badly insulted on a thread instarted once that mumsnet agreed to remove the entire thread as one poster was beyond the pale. I find some of the comments towards spiritual/religious people just vile, and I know I'm not alone in feeling this way.

I think the Internet brings out the very worst of people wether man, woman, boy or girl. It's too easy to hide.

Look at this thread for example.

The only site I go on which is predominantly female is MN, and I have found a heck of a lot of support and help and humour. And yes, some challenge ...

Other web sites even 'respectable' ones attached to newspapers or political blogs can be vile to women.

(by way that comes across as I'm doubting you, which I'm not at all, I just haven't faced any problems based purely just being a woman in my own experience)

Really Linerunner?! Maybe it's just those sites you have visited. I don't go on many but have been treated just fine.

I think I had more abuse from women on forums, I get particularly strange responses when talking about my abusive ex... But hey that's a whole other thread....

Crikey, Starwisher, I wish.

I, and other women whom I know from my profession, have variously been called, for no reason, on internet sites, by men: 'pig', 'dog', 'prositute', 'whore', 'tart', 'fat', 'corrupt', 'liars', 'fornicators', and 'hysterical'. Yes, that's on a 'serious' website.

To remind ourselves, the OP posted to say that the "MN" response (borg-like entity) to this article was "not very bright".

We have been trying to talk about that - my comments have been around the fact that MN consists of thousands of people who are all individuals and there is no "MN response". And that calling women thick for reacting as they have been conditioned to react is rather grim. And that the real villains in this piece are society and the media for fostering the attitudes that led to the reaction, and the DM in particular for gleefully publishing vile things about women almost non-stop.

Even in AIBU there has been a great deal of discussion about the Daily Mail's agenda of hating women.

Starwisher you obviously haven't seen what happened to that poor girl on Reddit!

I flat out do not believe that women in the feminist section have been posting "well my DH doesn't fancy her"

I do not understand the point of this thread at all.

I'm not sure why it was just suggested op was a man. It just came out of nowhere and was entirely unjustified

I also don't care for the implication that as if the mere fact of being a man is in itself somehow worthy of insult as well as the implication only a female opinion is valid.

What does it matter what sex a poster is?

As a female, if I have ever posted in a male orientated forum not once have I been made to feel my input is worthless based on my sex.

'I have sometimes found people suggesting I must be a man because they seem to think only men have certain characteristics eg to be ambitious, competitive, to earn a lot, to succeed. They cannot believe women can be like that.'

Xenia, well put. I said the same thing in another thread about Brick. She isn't stupid, she isn't naive, she isn't some hick from the back of beyond. To assume that she doesn't know exactly what she is doing, or that she doesn't understand the DM and it's audience, makes the assumption that she is just a dumb woman being manipulated by her (presumably male) bosses. I have a feeling it's the other way round.

Most of what people haev said about her is what most of us think - she is not as good looking as she says (although certainly looks better than some) and that it is not on to go on about it. Also to say that genuinely many of us are not jealous of other women who look good and that we are not happy about the generalisations she makes about other women.

I have sometimes found people suggesting I must be a man because they seem to think only men have certain characteristics eg to be ambitious, competitive, to earn a lot, to succeed. They cannot believe women can be like that. That sort of categorising by gender keeps women down as do statements that all women want to work part time when plenty of us love working long hours and being excellent at what we do and more housework and childcare is the last thing we want to do. We are not male for being like this. We are simply human.

It is like a comment that someone may be insane (often used by men in some cultures or the state in others to stifle free speech, Victorian women locked in lunatic asylums if they were not conveniently compliant etc)

Yeah, time to wind down for bed. Night, all.

RF I think you're fighting a losing battle here, but I get what you're trying to say - it's touched on another current thread in feminisim, can't think what the ttile is but something like, is the hate really this bad?

You might be better off joining in there :)

Off to bed now, no point engaging with argumentative people with no arguments..

You haven't raised arguments. You have been argumentative, I'll give you that.

And what's your point RF?

That women are all thick, because look at those daft threads on MN?

Would you like everyone to agree with you that we're all thick and men aren't and so it's OK that they rule the world and we should wind up the feminist section?

I like a bit of ambition. Good luck with that.

So, you would I guess need to look at the number of threads; number of posts; rapidity of response of threads; categorise types of response; take account of whether they were a response to the article, a previous post or a subsequent tv apprerance; quantify number of repeat posters and assess whether minds were changed; and decide on weightings for all of the above.