Something that's been bothering me

Beach, I've not suggested they're the originators.

there are certainly people who chose not to be part of the sisterhood and to instead jostle for pecking order amongst women and therefore enjoy slagging off other women to establish their superiority.

plenty of evidence of that on this thread.

May we paraphrase the original question as "Why do some women do this babygirl thing?"

Or are we obliged to paraphrase it as "Women are such dipsticks and I hate their breathy voices"? I didn't see him saying that, but maybe he was.

The OP says: I keep feeling that texts are telling me that women don't bear any responsibility for their actions because we live in a patriarchy. That is, that there is nothing wrong with the women above because they're trying to get by in the system. And yet at the same time, I feel that actions like that do a disservice to women who can and do want to do technical things because it only reinforces stereotypes.

Clearly our answers disagree, Abigail, Beach and Nyac.

If the babygirl thing worked reliably, there'd be a pragmatic defence for it. But it doesn't work as well as being a grown-up woman.

I can't ever agree that women don't bear any responsibility for their actions because we live in a patriarchy. If women bear no responsibility for their actions - even when their actions are sexist and harmful to feminism - then the patriarchal narrative of women's irresponsibility and inability to look after themselves must be true, no? Likewise, I'd venture, the narrative that sets women against themselves: for actions which contradict the feminist message are anti-women and disempowering for the actress.

Women succumbing to socialization by internalising the norms of doing femininity, isn't sexist behaviour. It is submissive behaviour. It is what people do when they don't have any real power.

They may be enacting a sexist stereotype but they are not the originators of the stereotype.

I'm not defending sexist behaviour you are, garlic. You are saying to this man it is OK to be sexist about these women because of xyz. What Nyac said about 2 pages ago.

power cannot be fairly distributed by gender - very badly written. I'm too tired to think of words I should have used ... it's wrong for people to adopt power positions according to gender. Something like that.

It's hard to believe you've never seen a woman suddenly change to babygirl for an interaction with a man. You may have seen a man suddenly change to bigman for an interaction with a woman. They are both fulfilling sexist stereotypes, quite overtly and selectively. I dislike it. It offends my feminist sensibilities, which tell me people are people first and power cannot be fairly distributed by gender.

Do you genuinely feel sexist behaviour should be defended by feminists?

See I think we have seen an element of the sisterhood in action on this thread.

Where some of us refused to get into a discussion bashing other women for supposedly failing to do their bit for the sisterhood.

Small thing but that is what it's all about.

that's online deal,can't corroborate or substantiate anything so op may be true/false/embellished. we simply don't know. that's why it's really words on a screen

Of course this is all assuming that these women actually behaved like this and the OP's husband isn't lying or perhaps being more generous, having a sexist perception of these conversations.

Garlic if you want to blame and ridicule numbers of women carry on. But don't do it in the name of feminism. Because it isn't.

spot on,some male/female chose sexist stereotypical typical behaviors
as a behavioral mode,as a way to react,respond and engage
we have all experienced the social chameleon who reverts to sexist behaviour

May we paraphrase the original question as "Why do some women do this babygirl thing?"

You're saying, iiuc, "Because it gets them what they want" and "men reward women who act like dipsticks, because that reinforces the male power position."

I wouldn't disagree. But I would add the women don't need to do it. I feel they'd be better advised to ask properly for what they want. Because that reinforces the female power equality.

As a strategy, the babygirl act sucks. It makes the actress look like a dipstick and reinforces the male power position by voluntarily adopting a powerless stance (for and on behalf of women, which makes my teeth clench). It will fail to get better results than asking like a grown-up. It's just useless.

As to why she does it - I fear it's because she has sexist assumptions about what men respond to in a woman. She will have learned this sexism from her patriarchal environment, but it's not the only model in front of her. I don't for one second believe "she's just being a woman"; she's being a manipulative woman, operating on incorrect information. I would like to see her behaviour challenged. I do not think there, there, poor ickle girl doesn't know any better. She does know better! And should be encouraged to drop this unhelpful and damaging act.

It won't neccessarily be the poster rewarding it, but someone is. Else it wouldn't continue.

But the poster isn't rewarding it ...?

I have written why it does that to my teeth and have tried to differentiate between traumatised behaviour and unthinking sexism on the part of game-playing women. I must have explained unclearly. Please can you show me why you conclude Neander feels contempt for women and not just the behaviour?

I'm not excusing him, because it's not obvious to me what his attitude is.

hadn't heard what in a while?

no it was a familiar harping back to the past. hadn't heard it for a while and there it was again.

The more assertive I am, the more in control I feel. - YY, Trophy! It gives you more control, too (for example, over the quality of assistance you get from the IT guy ... )

Sanjeev, I nearly ordered that book - I'll get it now, thanks. I'm not sure whether or not it's ironic that 'clever' working practices are inherently more family friendly and more "women's style" if there is such a thing. But it looks like a happy coincidence to me :)

Try looking for the men around her who reward that kind of behaviour GB. Stay focused on the real problem. With regards to those women who are setting your teeth on edge, I think you should try and be a bit more tolerant.

You're on form today, sm.

Nyac, what is your answer to my saying my teeth clench when I witness a woman doing babygirl in the workplace (repair shop, builder center, etc)? I've bee trying to work through my exact thoughts around it on here. Am I unwittingly sexist because I dislike sexist manipulation even when done by women?

This part, I don't get!

sexism regardless of gender of perpetrator is unacceptable
cannot excuse sexism with battery of yeah but,no but,he made her do it

thinks it's the chip slipped off someone shoulder
or chains of hegemony jangling in wind

Sexist men don't deserve tolerance whilst women are criticised for their behaviour in the face of sexism. That's completely the wrong way round.

what is that harping sound i hear?

Excellent post at 16:56, Nyac!

:)

And Abigail, I agree. It seems a very passive attitude..

this is a section in mn about feminism
not feminist board
there was considerable consternation about this, few high expressed emotion flouncers. some asserted it should be safe space.
but mnhq did categorically state it's a subject topic,open to all,no topic off limits.
so you see one can discuss any aspect of feminism one wants, one can challenge,and expect to be challenged