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Negotiating feminist agitation within a hetrosexual relationship

59 replies

Thistledew · 30/03/2012 19:39

My DP is one of the good guys. He is kind and respectful. He treats me (and women in general) as his equal. He does his fair share of the housework and we have discussed the possibilities of him either working part time or being a SAHD when we have children, so that I can focus on my career, which I love.

One way in which we differ is that he is quite self-contained in his world view. Life has been pretty good to him, and he is very comfortable in it, which means that he has little interest in thinking critically about why things are the way they are, and whether anything could be done differently.

He is broadly supportive of the feminist cause, and although he is guilty of placing more emphasis on the legal gains towards equality that have been made, rather than the social ones, this seems to be because he has not been confronted with the effects of social inequality, and has just never had cause to think about it. When I have pointed out things to him, he has been quick to appreciate what I have shown him: for example, he used to watch pornography, but after I pointed out to him how damaging it is to individual women and women as a whole, he completely changed his view of it.

But yet, earlier this week, I re-posted on Facebook this article - 5 ways modern men are trained to hate women after I saw it on one of my friend's feeds. DP was really upset. We had a big discussion about the article. He said that he felt it was unnecessarily aggressive and would in fact have the effect of alienating men from the feminist cause. His view is that the pace of change towards equality is steady and progressing, and that it is counter productive to try to force a big change, as it could create a backlash amongst men who would see it as a gender war, rather than something that benefits both sexes.

My first thoughts were that DP reacted this way as a result of unconscious male privilege. That the 'good guys' still expect women to be explicit in making it clear that we could not possibly mean them when we criticise patriarchal attitudes - amounting to a sense of deference to their position. Also, that even amongst the 'good guys' they are still shocked to hear a strong female voice that uncompromisingly criticises male behaviour, and are made to feel uncomfortable by it even if they agree with what is being said.

However, as we talked it through, DP said that the main thing was that he felt very hurt, and his first thought on reading the article was "I hope that she does not think that I am like that".

I am confident that this was a genuine feeling of hurt on the part of DP, and not any attempt to manipulate. So my question is, how can we as feminists best try to tackle the patriarchy, without hurting the decent men in our lives, but without compromising on our beliefs and what we need to say? Has anyone else had a similar issue in their relationship, and if so, how did you deal with it?

OP posts:
FromGirders · 30/03/2012 22:37

That's it bumperlicious, he takes it personally.
And it's not meant personally. If he was a twat I wouldn't have done him the honour of marrying him.

FromGirders · 30/03/2012 22:36

I'm also married to one of the good ones, what I like to call a Reasonable Human Being.
When I go off on a MN inspired feminist rant, he also gets fairly uncomfortable. He feels (and he says this, not me) that he's being called on to defend or explain his sex as a whole and that there is no defence. Again, his words.
He knows / realises that there is a system (patriarchy) that he benefits from, and that it's shit for most people. But as neither of us has worked out What To Do about it, we just have to try and live our lives as best and as fairly as we can.
Which still feels like a bit of a cop out. But I'm not sure what else to do. I'm not ready for marching and shouting just yet.

Bumperlicious · 30/03/2012 22:29

Haven't read the article, but I think your question is a good one any, as my v good and equalitarian (domestically) DH has at times been baffled by my feminism. We had a few arguments over it too. I ended up making him a power point presentation on why he should be interested in feminism, a really cobbled together one. And bless him, he took in in good spirit Grin

But it is still hard for them to understand the bigger picture sometimes. And easy to take it personally too.

lostmywellies · 30/03/2012 22:28

Thanks for the link, blackcurrants; that's an excellent article.

BasilFoulTea · 30/03/2012 22:22

Why is he feeling hurt?

Why does he think the nobbers of the article are anything to do with him?

It's only relevant to him, if a) he's a nobber like those in the article or b) he supports and maintains those nobbers.

Also maybe he doesn't recognise himself in that stereotyped description as well - that tapping into the "men think with their dicks" nonsense, which is simultaneously unbelievably insulting to men who are fully human and use their brain to think and used to excuse them when they behave with inhuman unkindness and cruelty to the women in their lives they claim to love. To read that this type of nobber is him - well, to a nobber that's a bit of a rueful larf, but to a man with a heart and a brain, I can imagine it's a total insult.

ecclesvet · 30/03/2012 22:05

"even amongst the 'good guys' they are still shocked to hear a strong female voice that uncompromisingly criticises male behaviour"

Are you talking about yourself, or the author of the article? Because I don't think 'David Wong' is a strong female voice.

IAmSherlocked · 30/03/2012 21:36

The article is crap, which may be why your DH objected to it!

blackcurrants · 30/03/2012 21:01

I thought the article was crap (and anti-feminist) too, and so did a feminist writer I like, if that's any help.

Perhaps it would help him to get over some of his discomfort if he can understand patriarchy as a system - like the class system, like the capitalist system, in which some (males) benefit at the expense of others (females). He's not some evil perpetrator, he's as much bound up in it as you or I - up to the point where he see it, and starts to react. If he gets defensive, well, that's partly because his worldview (I am a decent bloke and do decent things) is being attacked.
because he benefits from the oppression of women - all men (to varying extents) do. he didn't start it, he's not hitler, no one is saying he is. But now he knows how it works - now he knows. And what HE personally decides to do about that information is where the real measure of his character comes out.

Good luck, OP. I think he'll make it, if he's able to see a system in place.

CatitaInaHatita · 30/03/2012 20:44

Weeeelll, Thistle, I didn't much like the article either mainly because it appeared to start from the premise that men can't control their biological urges and are therefore somehow vunerable to women. I think this a lot of patriarchal crap quite honestly and I felt it ruined what could have been a good article.

Do you think perhaps it was this angle that upset him? Did he note that the article was written by a man? (It's just the way you describe it, it appears to me that he thinks it was written by a woman. But I am perhaps misunderstanding you). I wouldn't describe it as a feminist text, personally.

As for upsetting him, I think that sometimes this is going to be unavoidable. The patriarchy has created some pretty much upsetting situations for both sexes and tip toeing around it isn't going to help much.
I can only suggest that you make clear that you know that there is a difference between "men as a group" and individual men, just as there is a difference between "patriarchy" and "men". Getting upset at group behaviour or patriarchal setups is not the same as getting at him individually.