Anyone else hate the word feminity?

I must admit that I read the parts about disliking women who flutter their eyelashes etc and interpreted this to be a problem with women who are stereotypically feminine, rather than the word.

If it's just about the sound of the word then it's not a feminist issue is it. I have a freind who hates the world gusset and loves words with an ooooo sound in them. These are not political comments they're just to do with feelings about sounds.

Disliking the word feminine is not a feminist issue.

Disliking the imposition of femininity (and masculinity) is a feminist issue.

Disliking people who behave in a stereotypically feminine way - across the board - is at best rather narrow minded and at worst sexist.

I am still not sure what this thread is about TBH.

OP, I think it would help if you clarified what you meant.

You say you don't like the word femininity, with stress on it being the word you don't like. There is no doubt that it has some negative connotations. Well lots of words have negative connotations - war, cancer; that doesn't mean there is a reason not to like the word.

The other alternative is that you mean you don't like the word femininity in the same way that you don't like the word slut, and there is no reason for the word to still exist or be used to describe somebody. You also say your prefer the word female. Female and feminine mean entirely different things so there is no point comparing the two. Gender roles exist, and as long as they do we need words to describe them. What word would you like people to use instead of feminine?

As for all the stuff about not identifying with a certain type of female that you think is feminine, that is not about having an issue with a word as you claim; that is about having an issue with a group of women.

Well if someone expands on their original point in a sexist way, it invalidates the first point.

Lots of people hate femininity or the word, or what it entails, but the root cause of that is misogyny, not feminism.

Yes, I am a little. But to be fair her original post was just about the word. Other people took the ball and ran with it - the more offensive posts came at that point.

I didn't say the thread was responding to me. I was making a comment on the content of it.

Are you really not bothered about how the OP was talking about women who behave in a feminine way?

nyac - I think some men are oppressed by it. Individual men. They go with the flow because they are trained to do so. Women do the same. And some individual women dislike femininsm as a tool of the patriarchy.

And there are several different people responding to you not 'the thread'. I personally haven't critisised women for being 'feminine'. But I do dislike the concept of rules for women's behaviour that are dictated by a male-dominated society.

Patriarchy is men. It's not something abstract separate from men. Men create it and enforce it and benefit from it.

Looking at the restrictions whilst ignoring the massive benefits patriarchy offers men - benefits they refuse to give up, is approaching this from the wrong end in my view.

This is a bit of a weird thread, sympathy men for the downsides of patriarchy for them (not many) whilst women are being slagged off for acting in the way that patriarchy has prescribed for them. Men aren't oppressed by patriarchy and male supremacy, women are.

No, it isn't.

I was simply pointing out that masculinity can be restrictive to men. It suits the patriarchy to have men taking their correct roles just as it suits them for women to be feminine.

Once again, this isn't about individuals. Feminism is a class analysis, there will always be exceptions - women who have escaped some sexist oppression, men who don't want to fit into the masculine mould, but overall men have resisted women's liberation at every turn and kept tight hold of the benefits of masculinity. I don't think it's really possible to argue against that.

nyac - I am not sure my eldest son see masculinity in that way at all. He's 15 and struggling to come to terms with being 'a man'.

No Orm it isn't. It's about criticising women who behave in a "feminine" manner.

Masculinity isn't a set of chains for men, it offers them freedom, privilege and half the population to oppress. It's why they refuse to give it up, and fight women all the way when we work to destroy it.

It's not willful misunderstanding, unless you didn't actually say this:

"The type of female who stands around fluttering her eyelashes and generally being helpless of course. Bleugh."

"I always picture a woman who would be topple over if someone said 'boo' to her and who stands around fluttering her eyelashes and generally being helpless. Sorry, can't identify with this type of female at all."

This isn't about political analysis of femininity, this is simply denigrating certain women whose behaviour you don't like, whilst ignoring the oppressive structures that ensure that there are women who behave in that way.

"The problem is not about what women are e.g. feminine or taking part in feminity, it's about the political, social and economic structures that men use to keep women oppressed"

yes. Isn't that what the thread was about in the first place?

And as for masculinity - it's just as odious a set of chains.

grimble - I know what you mean. Feminity is a set of rules for women to follow. It says

"Women, know your place! You may be pretty and gentle, you may be caring and nurturing, you may concern yourself with harmless domestic pursuits, and you may make yourself attractive to men in a way that they will enjoy. But do NOT dare to presume to be other than Feminine. There is no place for the UnFeminine woman in our society".

Female will do just fine as a description. It says what I am without value judgements.

That was a Freudian slip - "hate masculinity".

I'm talking about your posts, I've said nothing about your life.

They are sexist about the women whose behaviour you don't like.

If you know about the harms of male behaviour then why aren't you saying you have masculinity? Because that's what causes the problems.

I hate sexism and I especially hate seeing it in the feminism section.

Grimble, femininity and masculinity are sex roles foisted on men and women where men are dominant and women are submissive. They are created by male oppression of women, which has at the base of it male violence towards women, particularly sexual violence. They are part of the sex hierarchy which places men on top and women below. The dominated have to submit, it's what the dominators require.

The problem is not about what women are e.g. feminine or taking part in feminity, it's about the political, social and economic structures that men use to keep women oppressed. Maybe if you start looking at those then in future you'll avoid the sexism that you've displayed here.

Oh the individualist form of feminism. I see. The one where you look down on women who don't manage to escape oppression and feel smug about yourself because you did, because apparently it's just a matter of willpower. It's not, it's luck. Funny how that kind of "feminism" is all about condemning women whilst ignoring real harmful behaviour towards women by men.

No you didn't use the word "despise" but that's what you're doing with the sexist words you used. You're not even accurate. VEB was a strong character.

There is surely a lot more wrong with masculinity than femininity.

And you did suggest you hated femininity, OP. It is in the thread title.