Women dominated/women only spaces

SWG - I haven't read the book, but I remember that my husband felt a bit alienated, that he was treated like he wasn't even in the room, at a lot of antenatal appointments, as well as postnatal visits.

As it is, we share parenting equally, he was very supportive during the pregnancies, was and is very involved and interested, and his support was crucial in my establishing breastfeeding.

I could understand why he wasn't happy about it, and I didn't find the midwives (or anyone else) excluding him very helpful.

Your scorn seems a bit misplaced to me.

Oh right sorry, I thought people meant male doulas for women.

not just that its like oh right a man who is not a doctor or my babys father is going to see my mauled minge, I feel really relaxed

I dont see many women agreeing.

doula for men? Like what are they doing?

Hoebag not a problem with male doulas, people were remarking on the idea of doulas for the men - as in, bring someone in not to support the birthing woman, but their male partner.

From a feminist standpoint, it's a way to make a situation that is actually about a woman, a woman at the centre of attention as she is the person giving birth! - into a situation where attention is paid to the man present.

Just like attention is paid to men more than women all the time. It's sad, but it's also ridiculous.

Whats so wrong with male doula's

I go to a woman only yoga class. The other week a drunk man wandered in, the teacher dealt with him kindly called him a cab etc. He barged into our class blethering on about his problems "want you to hear the whole story hic" and struck me that there is no way this would happen the other way round. I cannot imagine a drunk woman walking into a room full of men doing an activity and make them all focus on/deal with her. Even though drunk and idiotic he retained his sense of entitlement that he could walk into a room full of women engaged in doing something, disrupt it and make it all about him.

I've always worked in education and have worked with very few men.

This year we have a male principal and it's...different.

"it is nothing extraordinary for a master to bar his slaves from the manor, but it is a revolutionary act for slaves to bar their master from their hut"

It sounds like we should be demanding the blokes fuck off out of the cabinet whilst we have some kind of ideological sit-in, does it not?

The difference is that currently the world is set up as a predominantly male space. Men have much more space in which to manoeuvre and be heard than women.

And women as a group are oppressed by men as a group - women need to create spaces which are closed to the oppressing class, so that they can freely discuss female oppression and its consequences, without feeling the need to moderate their speech in order not to hurt male feelings or be attacked by men who are threatened by feminism.

Men may well wish to spend time in men only spaces for reasons of camaraderie (women do this too) but they do not need exclusive spaces in which to escape from oppression or discuss oppression; because they are not oppressed (for their gender).

good link beachcomber

I like the Marilyn Frye analogy:

"it is nothing extraordinary for a master to bar his slaves from the manor, but it is a revolutionary act for slaves to bar their master from their hut"

It comes from MF's book Politics of Reality (which is an excellent read)

Good article Beach. Explains it nicely.

Dworkin - I know! The irony being that the last time I saw GG she was advocating a feminist overthrow of the patriarchal capitalist system and still managed to tell the audience that all women were hopelessly in love with their sons! And Dworkin, of course, told the men how much we believe in their humanity!

And yet still some men refuse to listen.

Beach - that's really interesting.

My partner wanted to know why he wouldn't be welcome at say, 'Reclaim the Night'. He thought it was a bit off. Five seconds later, once I'd mentioned rape survivors, he understood perfectly. I didn't need to go into all the other things (though I did, of course).

You've got to wonder at the motive of those who refuse to understand such clear explanations, haven't you?

I participate in a women-only activity regularly. Dh isn't jealous - he's one of these rare types who treat women as human beings.
I'm inclined to think that men who are jealous of women only spaces are largely just attention seeking. How dare we not focus our full concentration on them!?
Some are definitely threatened though, but I suspect that they're the ones who actually know how unreasonable and unfair they, and society, are. They'd be the ones who put their self-interest above all else.

I came across this the other day which I thought was very rousing.

VictorG I know more than one men who spits nails at the mere mention of Germaine Greer. I know many more who roll eyes when the name Andrea Dworkin is mentioned.

Mere names and yet such a reaction!

I know more one man who spits nails at the fact that Germaine Greer will only take the first question from a woman at any of her speaking events.

Imagine?! A noted feminist, doing feminist things?!

Also: see any thread, ever, about the Bechdel test in a male-dominated space. Or discussions about women and their representation in a male-dominated area. You don't have to scratch the surface too deeply before you come across some men who just cannot bring themselves to view women as full humans.

Hello, btw!

I went to an all-girls secondary school. Sixth form was a bit of a shock, particularly as one particular teacher let the boys dominate while joking about the girls' tits - particularly mine. :(

I agree that a lot of men are so used to being the dominant voice that they can't conceive that women would talk without them.

Please see pubs/clubs thread as a great example of this.