Pubs and clubs

Yeah, it's quite satisfying. But also not an option available to everyone and it doesn't solve the problem that they shouldn't be fucking doing it in the first place. I can't think about it for too long or the read mist descends: who do they think they are that they can lay their hands on another person? What sort of community are they growing up in that condones this? Is this how they see their mothers? What sort of doublethink do they have to employ if not?

Just another reminder that we're not proper people.

What the fucking fuck???!!!

Well done.

I have done that on the Tube a few times btw. Highly recommended - you get a round of applause!

I am a woman in her thirties and the last time I was in a club I had my dress lifted to waist level when I walked across the dance floor.

I'm not ashamed to say that I bent his hand back while calmly (but extremely loudly) asking him what the fuck he thought he was doing. I don't know what depressed me more: the fact that he did it in the first place, or the fact that he clearly thought he'd done an unremarkable thing and was shocked rigid at my reaction. I had to let his hand drop as I was clearly never going to get an answer.

So do I. I'm also afraid the legal protections we fought for are under threat. They're fragile as it is. On the more cheerful side, this could be due to young women believing the battle's already won - and, when they start losing ground, will fight for it.

I hope so, anyway!

I think it's fairly normal to want excessive male attention in your teens and twenties - it's part of the self-identification, boundary-setting process for most young women. But I wish they were fully aware of their right to pick and choose. It really shocked me that more women than men blamed the rape victims in that TV experiement (was 3 or 4 years ago, I think; can't recall the details.)

The last one I went to out pubbing & clubbing it was horrendous. There were 6 of us and every single one of us was grabbed, rubbed up against and letched at. It started within 2 minutes of us entering the first, fairly empty pub where a bloke pressed up against us at the bar. Plenty of room for him to stand elsewhere. And it ended as we were walking back to the mini bus and a bloke slapped my friends behind and said "cor. Nice arse".

For the hard of thinking, I know the difference between letched at and flirted with. I also know the difference between sexual assault and drunken fooling around.

Oh, dear :(

I know this topic abhors the word "empowerment", but there seems to be a worrying shortage of it! Isn't anybody advising young women they're free to tell annoying blokes to get lost?

YY, sunshine, in my 30s & 40s I was still going clubbing by myself sometimes - to dance. By that time I was well able to get rid of pests and unafraid to ask the bouncers to help if need be. Thinking back to when I was younger (even longer ago), I used to get some other geezer to help out by doing a desperate look or even just asking someone to help me get rid of a creep.

I would have hoped that, by now, young women weren't as worried about upsetting a male ego. But I fear most are :(

I have seen groups of women sexually harassing men, btw, and it's just as horrid.

Just don't you go taxing your ladybrain with too much thinking First. Especially not thinking about that type of masculine sexuality which is expressed through unwanted and unsolicited sexual attention (AKA sexual harassment) - you might end up being accused of being a prude (which everyone knows is a terrible thing for a lady to be).

I love a good ole fashioned circle-jerk

spent far too long on shitredditsays

So STFU with the complaining already. Didn't you hear the man telling you what you may and may not discuss with other women?

And it doesn't matter if ladies don't love minor sexual assault anyway - everyone knows that it is part and parcel of being lady to be sexually harassed and assaulted on a regular basis. Cos that's what ladies is for.

Cor blimey sunshine where's yer sense of humour?

Every knows that the ladies love minor sexual assaults!

Yeah, Sunshine, it's so simple

and just one more because I couldn't resist

How about joining an orchestra? :)

Awww, thanks for your concern - I cope, thanks. There's a serious lack of openings for musicians outside the pub circuit, think I'll stick where I am and just keep challenging the status quo. Bless your wee heart.

Male barmen get propositioned all the time and groped by women.

You work around drunks ....... Whatever gender there will always be some who are going to overstep the normal limits.

Find another job seriously. Pub cricket is a fine British institution

We aren't sickened by male sexualty. We are sickened by male obnoxiousness. HTH.

AbsentFather so being harrassed or sexually assaulted in pubs and clubs may not be the worse thing that can happen in life (didn't realise there was a competition btw) but why is this something that most women should have to put up with? If you can expect to go out for a drink or a night out unmolested why should women not expect the same?

And what on earth are you banging on about women checking out the IT workers arse? I have never experienced this and even if it does happen that does not make it right does it? How is that even relevant to the OP?

I hope you don't have any daughters with an attitude like yours.

"how often do you get groped in this day and age"

Weekly. I am out (working) in the pub at least 4 nights a week, and it happens on at least one of them.

Propositioned every time.

I don't get it as badly as some other women (my sister's a bar maid and it's far worse.) Also, not that it matters, but in case you were wondering, I wear jeans, t shirt, no make up and flat shoes. Just in case, you know, you think I'm "asking for it."

It does not happen to men.