Pubs and clubs

As someone else mentioned up thread, for some reason goth/rock clubs are less grim for this sort of thing. As are fetish and swingers' clubs. WHen I used to spend all my time in either rock clubs or sex clubs I hardly ever had hassle - but any night I went to a 'striaght' club I'd have to put up with shit half the night.

InAnyOtherSoil - thanks. I usually go to slightly nicer places and don't have as many problems tbh, I think it was an exceptionally bad night. I don't know about your disability, but in a reasonable place with a group of friends around perhaps it's possible?

Oh god, I went out to a couple of clubs for the first time in awhile on Saturday too. I ended up physically pushing at least two men away who were deliberately barging into or touching me and shouting nasty sweary words at at least a couple more. The whole thing ruined my night, which was a shame as it was otherwise nice to catch up with friends and have a dance. It did make a real difference that the places the group decided to go to were pretty scummy with free entry though.

Puchai have you been studying this?

puchai - have my first

Me and my friend spoke abut this earlier predatory people in clubs tend to be older, for men its generally older women (think welch) who grope men and generally older men who do it to women.

Itsnotunusualtobe garlic I didn't say the majority of women are as bad, just that women can also be sexually aggressive towards men. It's disgusting behaviour for both sexes, alcohol has a lot to answer for, I'm sure these letches wouldn't do it sober.

Once me and my mate got harrasssed by 2 blokes one each harassing us, followed us to the toilet, bar etc we had to make some excuse and take a walk around the block to loose them,

only for a Yoohoo moment at a taxi bay :O

I told him several times I didn't want to dance, as did others. He wouldn't listen.
:(

Yep, so this has sod all to do with 'misinterpreting' signals (you) and everything to do with ignoring signals (him). It pisses me off that a harassed woman needs confirmation from others to be sure she's not being an arse! But, often, we do need it, and I'm glad you got it.

I've just realised that what I wanted to write is a whole different thread, so I'll post that ...
And thanks for the pointer!

I was going to do a post on this very same problem but forgot. I have to say that at 51, the last time I went out I was pestered by a bloke who insisted on dancing with me like I was a professional dancer - I'm not. It was interesting to observe that the floor was filled to capacity when it came to 'ladies' only dance - don't ask, i live in a rural area, and I found that his approaches where bordering on the abusive. I told him several times I didn't want to dance, as did others. He wouldn't listen.

maybe if you just go once a year you are not really used to how they haven't really changed

Yeah, but I had higher hopes for the TWO generations after me!

nightclubs have always been predatory places, maybe if you just go once a year you are not really used to how they haven't really changed

I remember the classic club double whammy - incessant pestering for phone number, dance, drink purchase etc, followed by being called a bitch and frigid if you insisted they took no for an answer.

I've had less trouble in more alternative clubs, including fetishy goth ones where a lot of people, not just women, were dressed in a very provocative way. It just goes to show that the old chestnut about clothing is bullshit.

axure that particular drunken woman may well have been as bad as the vile specimens that I have encounter but I'd be stunned if the majority of woman are 'just as bad' as some of the examples given on this thread alone.

Axure, that woman was wrong. Everyone who behaves like that is wrong.
But, unless you live in a different universe from the rest of us, far more men behave wrongly in that way, towards women, than women do towards women or men.

Women are just as bad, in a bar on holiday last year a drunken woman started writhing and rubbing herself up against my DH who tried to back away (too afraid to touch her in case she cried assault) when I told her to F off she squared up to me and said DH had been sexually pestering her.

Thanks Beachcomber.

What I also find irritating is when people refuse to acknowledge that tolerating something at a low level (ie, this harmless groping, or whatever it is that's considered harmless) might lead to something worse.

What Absentfather also seems to fail to understand is that standing up to a man is harder if he's a lot bigger than you, and giving off an air of not-being-afraid-to-get-rough. I had an early lesson in not-standing-up-for-myself at school, aged 11. I told a boy (a big lad, well built, a foot taller than me) to back off, and he punched me in the mouth. Hard. I looked around and the other boys were all smirking and the girls were pretending not to have seen what happened, presumably fearful of drawing attention to themselves. I felt very foolish.

It didn't help me to 'stand up to him'. It might have been successive incidents of male aggression in the face of my standing up for myself that actually led to my fear of confrontation later.

Plus, there always seems to be an assumption that this is about sex; that when you are sexually harassed, it's just about that a person wanting to have sex with you, and making it known. It's about much more than that. It's power play. It's ritual humiliation. When people do things like pulling skirts up in a public place, it's not because they expect that woman to turn to them and think, "mmm, hot, I fancy you", is it? They MUST know it's not going to get them laid. They're doing it to bring that woman down a peg or two, make everyone laugh at and deride her. At least, that's how it looks to me.

You are quite right to be irked MoChan.

That sort of thing makes me angry too. Telling women that they are 'sheltered' or 'precious flowers' because they do not wish to be sexually harassed and assaulted, as they go about their daily business, is victim blaming.

It is also manhating as it implies that sexually imposing yourself on strangers is normal male behaviour and something women should expect from men. It is our fault if we don't find this normal male behaviour acceptable.

Personally I think rather more of men than that.

Urg. Absentfather, you have IRKED me with your talk of 'precious flowers' and 'sheltered lives'. In my post I said that I got into some "difficult situations". And by "difficult situations" I wasn't talking about having to ask someone to not look at my chest. I was talking about unwanted attention leading to verbal abuse, sexual assault and rape. Obviously, those things happened because I am a precious flower, thanks for making it clear to me.

I am not sickened by male sexuality. In my younger days, I was very fearful of confrontation. I wish I had had more confidence, and I hope my own daughter will have more of it. But it's a sad thing, in my opinion, that the lack of it would make me SO VERY VULNERABLE, and that I deserve somehow to be considered pathetic because of it. You know, one of these 'precious flowers' you are talking about.