Male obstetricians & gynaes

Even Michel Odent says that men should stay out of the delivery room:

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/18/men-birth-labour-baby

NICE guidelines recognise that a female birth partner results in better outcomes. Tis true

It is an issue. There's plenty of criticism in feminism about the medical establishment and in particular men's forays into gynaecology and obstetrics.

Yep, I think fundamentally it is down to being able to choose, particularly in relation to reproductive health care. There may be reasons men would prefer a male urologist as well.

I do think though there is the separate issue which isn't just unique to medicine - the impact of a "male culture" on practice, both for men and women doctors and of course on patients ultimately.

The sex of the doctor or midwife is irrelevant to me too, I really couldn't care as long as they are good at their job and explain things.
I do however think that women should have the choice.
I was very happy to have my DH as a birth partner, I really wouldn't want a female birth partner.
It is all down to personal choice.

I wonder if that is because male birth partners tend to be the father though, and they either can't cope with seeing their partner in pain, or are frightened about the outcome for the mother or baby? If a female birth partner has some experience of childbirth, she might know more about what pain seems 'normal'?

Long ago and far away, I worked for a time as a gynae nurse. Initially, I, too was surprised that there wasn't a significantly different approach taken by male and female gynae/obs surgeons and that even women nurses in the clinical area weren't particularly more sympathetic to the conditions patients were experiencing.

I wondered then, and still wonder, if senior women doctors (as with women in senior positions in other fields,) they experience or feel in themselves a pressure to "not appear too female," as overall, they are a minority within their discipline. For a gynae/obs practitioner, showing too much empathy for patients could be equated with not being "professional enough," and in my view, women doctors are judged more harshly by other doctors within what is a very male-led, male-dominated field.

Gynae is an odd area. The best gynaecologist I've seen was a late middle-aged, upper middle class man with a booming voice and a close to the bone sense of humour - that was more due to him listening to and acting on my concerns, and discussing my problems in such a way that didn't make me feel stupid.

I have found all physical procedures to be unpleasant in one way or another. Those performed by doctors, regardless of gender, tended to be worse, while those actually carried about by nurses were much less painful and degrading. All of the nurses were female, but it may have been down to their increased experience of hands-on patient "handling". It's an interesting one.

exotic here's a genuine Q - if - and I mean IF - there were reliable stats to show that women had much better outcomes under female care (like, fewer interventions due to having their wishes taken into account, fewer instances of 'rough' care) then would you still think your DSs potential desire to become ob/gyns should outweigh the comfort of female patients? Not trying to be offensive, just wondering!

They have had no desire to do anything remotely medical so it hasn't cropped up. However I don't believe for one minute that anyone would get the statistics to prove it and based on my personal experience that the best doctor I have ever come across was a male gynaecologist I would say 'go for it and prove them wrong'!

I don't think there is much of a difference between male and female doctors on this, but I don't think that is very surprising as both are trained within the same system, which I think is generally quite dismissive of "women's problems".

I've always had problems with painful periods and found that my GPs have always been of "live with it" mentality, all have been men. My worst experience was with a male paramedic that was called when I fainted due to a bad period on the tube. He refused to believe that the pain was real and I wasn't really in a position to argue as I was drifting in and out of conciousness, so felt real to me. He made it clear that if there really was a problem, he thought I should have tried much harder to get it investigated, so had clearly never been to a GP complaining about period pain (I had been to several). He also refused to give me any pain relief and claimed that they had nothing suitable available. His colleague (also male but much more sympathetic), gave me something when he had gone, so clearly a slight untruth there.

The "women's thing" I've had is fainting, which again I've repeatedly been told just happens to young women and I'd just have to put up with it. I did eventually manage to get a referral for this (from a woman after several men had dismissed me) and surprise, surprise, there was something that could be done so I had basically been living with a treatable problem for 10 years because it was a "women's thing".

The most respectful and empathetic HCPs I had when having children were all men. They were very good at seeming to protect my dignity and talking to me as an intelligent person. The only issues I had were with women who were occasionally blunt, wouldn't listen and could be quite rough with their handling. Of course that's entirely anecdotal so means nothing but I don't think the gender has a huge impact although I do wonder if maternity care would be considered more important if men gave birth but that's another thread.

I must say though that the majority of HCPs I encountered were great, it was just the very odd one that was a problem (and I met a lot!)

Three people stand out as ignoring my wishes / not respecting me while I was in hospital having dd1 and dd2, all female (one obs, one midwife and one other hcp, not sure what she was).

The only man I encountered was the obs who dealt with my case when I was admitted with a heavy bleed at 20 weeks. He was kind, respectful and professional and spoke to me as an equal and the fact he was a man made no odds to me whatsoever.

I also know someone who had a male midwife for her first labour and said he was great.

Totally unscientific sample of course and just my experience. Most of the staff I encountered were female and were great.

I live in a country where most expats have an Obs led delivery (private system) and you can choose your Obs- there are approx 7 who are the popular/well known ones- 3 are women, 4 are men. Mine is a woman but I'd be happy with any of 5 out of the 7.

Based on comments made by other expats, arguably the most empathetic and openly caring Obs is a man. The most experienced, technically competent Obs who gets the complicated ones is a woman. Two of the 3 female Obs dont have any biological children. What's more, personal opinions on each of these Obs varies massively, so it seems that patient personality/circumstance is as much of a facotr as Obs personality/manner.

I dont think it's helpful to generalise.

How could there ever be such a statistic? Surely outcomes would be down to the care received, and how would you ever be confident that better outcomes were due to the gender of the person rather that person just being a better communicator/practitioner?

This all seems a non-argument to me, sorry.

i have three children, born in three different countries. two male obstetricians (one performed elcs, one vbac1) and one female mw (vbac2).

i have only two children that weren't brain damaged due to negligence.

i would be off my head if i suggested that female hcps were in some way preferable.

equally i would be off my head if i suggested that male hcp's were. but you can see how i might have been influenced.

the female midwife was lovely though. i'm just not sure that it counted for much, in the longer term.

honeslty? it doesn't make any difference to me personally, but i believe there should be all-female teams available in certain circs. i wouldn't ask for them, but nor would i have a problem being allocated them in the luck of the draw.

The empathy thing can sometimes be worse with female doctors as they often have a 'I was fine so why are you making a fuss?' kind of attitude whereas a good male ob/gyn tends not to make that judgment. Worst experience i had was going to see my GP after an MMC at 12 weeks. She wasn't particularly sympathetic at the time. That surprised me even more when I went back to see her a few months later and noticed her bump so she had clearly been pregnant around the same stage that I had been. I'd have expected more empathy but some people, amazingly often doctors, are not very empathic.

The male ob/gyn phenomenon used to bother me when I was young but having my DS helped me get over that. You realize it's no big deal. I still choose to see a female ob/gyn when I have the choice but don't have hang-ups about it anymore. As long as you're getting helped it doesn't matter who it is!

There was a brilliant male midwife on the last series of OBEM- I think he actually posted on mumsnet afterwards.

It's more about the medical staff being GOOD and sensitive to the women they are working with than their gender, I think.

Oh, bit of cross posting there!

Not all female obstetricians/gynaecologists have had heavy/painful periods or have had children so isn't that a bit of a non-argument? We can't have a whole profession who have had heavy periods and exclude those who haven't.

Doctors specialising in medicine for the elderly haven't been retired!