Male obstetricians & gynaes

Oh right, didn't notice that, thanks.

Please be advised, This 4 month old thread has been revived by mywifeismylife

'It can be shocking and quite upsetting for your husband if you go to a male gynaecologist. Men know how other men actually think!'

That is really disturbing. I think you need to stop taking 'ownership' of your wife and her vagina.

If your wife is happy enough to have a male gyno then there's no reason for you to get your knickers in a twist.

IME, both make and female professionals can be just as dismissive and have bad bedside manner. I prefer women a it makes me more comfortable but in labour, you pretty much take what comes and can't discrimate.

I would like to add that with my daughter, my first child, a male doctor performed the sweep, and it was very painful. He showed little regard and my husband was furious. He was the one who asked the doctor, 'As a man, what do YOU know about the pain my wife is in?' I wasn't furious as I was just concerned for my child...but when a female doctor performed the sweep with my son and it was painless, I felt that I would always prefer a woman doctor from then on. I felt guilty about that...but I am not sure why.

I had a male student doctor observing when I had my son, and to be frank it made the labour much more difficult. I wish I hadn't agreed to it. I just feel more comfortable with women and the female midwife I had was SUPERB!!!! She gave me a hug and praised me all the way through and she was just great. I find it hard to understand why some women feel more comfortable with male gynae doctors TBH.

WRT costs - I wonder how they compare if continence issues, loss of sexual function and psychological trauma are taken into account.

I am a feminist but my personal experiences would make me prefer to deal with male obs. Purely because I know that I would then avoid the female arseholes that I've previously encountered.

It can be shocking and quite upsetting for your husband if you go to a male gynaecologist. Men know how other men actually think!

To be fair he did also point out it was easier for the doctors, the C sections could be timetabled to make good use of hospital resources. Though the costs argument didn't seem to occur to him. The man is a neighbour. He's not a person I would voluntarily spend time with, though his wife (also a consultant gyne) is very nice.

slug the C-Section/natural birth argument is a funny one, as both sides claim to be pro women and the other to be misogynist.

E.g. This blogpost outlines how the insistence on "pain relief is bad, feeling pain is empowering" is actually quite misogynist.e

If I look at the ragged bits thread I'm not sure whether recommending a CS doesn't also have a good outcome for the mother in mind. My perineum and the risk of tears certainly also was one point of consideration when I decided to ask for an ELCS with my second child.

As for "fanny mechanic" - as long as he doesn't introduce himself as that to a patient, I can't really see the outrage, it's no worse than referring to the urinary tract as waterworks or an anaethesist calling himself "gasman". It's flippant, yes, but certainly not misogynistic.

I know a consultant obs. He refers to himself as a "fanny mechanic" . A few weeks ago he was seriously telling me that in his professional opinion all women should have a C section as the outcome for babies is better but not for women but they aren't as important

Nyac Michael Odent is a misogynistic twit in my book, and I don't see how his opinion (for it is opinion, not evidence based fact) should carry any more weight than anyone else's.

I want well-trained HCPs who are good at their job, and don't care about their sex or gender. Or how many children they had themselves by what delivery method. Their personal experiences are anecdote, what counts is their professional experience. Any gender/sex based working ban is ridiculous.

There's a big thread on male MW in AIBU. Nearly every other poster thinks the gender issue is irrelevant. Post after post talking about how not only are male MW OK, they are better than female ones.

And obviously anyone with an issue is sexist/ prudish/ whatever.

Sorry if this is bad form (talking about another thread) but it's an interesting counterpoint.

RevoltingPeasant

" I am interested as to why so being sued is such a greater risk for ob/ gyns. Do you think it's because it's an emotive area of medicine or because care genuinely is not so good?"

The risk of being sued (and therefore extremely expensive insurance) is more to do with the size of compensation claims rather than their number. The reason is that in O+G when something goes wrong that can often mean that a baby has been affected, and the compensation has to reflect the increased needs of the baby across their lifespan, so payments can be in the millions.

I think you have hit it spot on KRITIQ. I speak as a young female consultant though not in obs/gynae. The medical profession is amazingly conservative, old fashioned and sexist in its attitude to itself and other HCP. It is now I think rather better in its treatment of patients but if your attitude to your colleagues is off then this will have an impact on patient care.

The overwhelming majority of medical students are now women but certain specialities and the senior posts are still male dominated. It wasn't until I qualified that I realised the full impact of how sexist we are as a profession. As a medical student I was completely oblivious that there was still such a thing as discrimination on the basis of gender. There were a few hints that I didn't take too much notice of such as the nurse at my GP practice placement trying to encourage me to come and work with them as one of their 'lady doctors' or my realisation that every orthopaedic firm in any hospital I went to wore a distinct uniform depending on their place in the heirarchy (PRHO: non-uniform and white coat, SHO: cream chinos, blue shirt, Reg: as SHO but with blazer, Consultant: pin-stripe suit. All men bar one female reg who wore pink wellies in theatre).

When I qualified I was met with comments from my senior colleagues from all sides about which job was or was not suitable for a woman. Tutors told me about how 'when you get to 40 you'll be unhappy you haven't had children' and one female surgeon I knew was told by her tutor that the only possible surgical job for women was breast surgery as you can't combine anything else with having children. Another medical director spoke in a meeting I was at about his frustration that every time he appointed a female registrar they went off on maternity leave and he didn't want any more candidates who would go off sick or have babies. These are only a few examples. Time spent doing things other than following a very narrow career focused ladder was frowned on. It was thought you lacked commitment to your career.

Senior jobs still go on the basis not just of your ability but also whether you'll fit in or not. Whilst there are some good reasons to why the ability to get on with your colleagues is obviously important, this can become a problem when there is such a macho attitude to how we should work, what we should be like and where difference is seen as a bad thing.

My feeling is that one of the key problems is that it is simply not expected in medicine that men will take any significant time off or work part time to look after their children. Therefore to look like a competitive 'serious' candidate in some specialities as a woman, it is best to either have your children in your annual leave, not to have children or to wait until you are already appointed as a consultant before getting pregnant. Fit in with typical male stereotypes or stay out and become a 'lady doctor'. When the most common 'caring' role, ie as a parent is not valued as an important role for men and women then a profession as a whole is always going to struggle with taking a caring attitude with others.

Deep breath and rant over.

I think I would struggle massively with a male MW, with my other pregnancies I've spent a huge amount of time in the bath absolutely stark naked, it's not so bad having another woman seeing me like that but I would hate a strange man seeing me naked. I'd feel very self concious and awkward.

I think that there is pressure on women to be good sports about it, rather then being honest with our feelings. We're not supposed to upset other people just for our own comfort.

I was examined in labour by a ham fisted bitch of a female midwife but I don't imagine she was representative of her profession or sex. My male surgeon and male midwife in second delivery were amazing. In fact it was only after I had been in recovery for about an hour that I noticed he was a man.

I had a male MW for part of my induction with DD.

I tried SO hard to be all liberal, and yes fine, get on with it etc. When it came to it, I couldn't do it. I had to ask for a female MW.

Later that same day, a consultant came in, who was also male. There was no choice, apparently. He did not take no for an answer. Basic forced VE.

Fine, men can be in these roles, no problem. But while rates of rape and abuse of women are as high as they are, I would venture a guess that there are more women than me who have a problem with strange men poking at them. It has absolutely fuck all to do with a nice, rational, egalitarian thought process - what I experienced was a gut reaction, a massive fight or flight response and total panic. Exactly what you need at 42 weeks pg. We need to be allowed to choose.

Having been sexually assaulted by a male obs/gyn whilst on work experience aged 16, I am rather wary of being in any position of vulnerability with a male doctor. I'm sure the vast majority are fantastic but I do wonder whether the power that they have over women specifically in obs/gynae attracts some nasty types - certainly the most unpleasant surgeon I've ever worked with is a gynaecologist.

I refuse to see male gps anymore and preferrably no males at all regarding my mental health problems.

The ones I have seen have been dismissive, patronising and at one point refused to do anything as 'he didn't know what to do' (I was at crisis point which he admitted) and wait till my normal (female) doctor returned and phone the samaritans if it got really bad (I wasn't suicidal). Everything is questionned and then I am told I am wrong or it didn't happen even when they insist on talking to my dh who backs me up (who they have called in as clearly I can't be trusted) because clearly I have tricked him (despite him witnessing enough of it). I have been told that they cannot believe a single word I say as I have a history of paranoid delusions (which is noted that I recognise as delusions while they are happening). And just other complete dismissing of anything I say because clearly I Cannot Be Trusted on anything, ever.

I don't think all men automatically are terrible when it comes to mental health problems but because of my experiences I won't take the risk anymore. If I had relied on the men I have seen over the years I would never have received a diagnosis or any treatment. I was dismissed as just another depressed young mother (which apparently pretty much disqualifies you from any treatment) despite not being depressed. This happened over years and various different male doctors and different doctors surgeries.

And yes I do believe they would have treated a man differently.

A nice, approachable, friendly manner is more important than gender.

They would have to be very low profile-and I doubt if many could-therefore DH muddling along with me was much better-for me.

It says a low profile woman not one that wants you to have birth plans or tell you what to do. That's a rather different thing.

Even Michel Odent says that men should stay out of the delivery room:

All he can possibly say is some men should stay out. It is utterly ridiculous to think that all men have the same reaction. Personally I can't think of anyone better than my DH. I wouldn't like a woman who wanted me to have birth plans etc and had opinions on how it should go.