I have never posted on this topic, or read anything on here, and feel like I have misunderstood what it means to be a feminist. Would anyone have the time to educate me please?

adds more faces to gurls friends comments

For me feminism means wanting equal rights for women under the law which in many countries they still do not have and fairness at home. Most men and women in England support those principles.

I have no problems with the way work is structured - I am a capitalist feminist and I feel insulted all over the press when it is assumed because I have breasts I am not ambitious, want to compete and be successful and the best at what I do in the UK and that I might want to work 2 hours a day and spend the rest doing childcare and housework. The sooner women as I am can take 2 weeks holiday off in which to have a baby without anyone turning an eye lid just as man can the better.

Sanjeev, radical feminists are perfectly aware of the reality that no countries, theocratic or otherwise, wish to embrace a radical feminist revolution.

So we do stuff like support women's refuges, help women out of prostitution, believe rape victims, speak out against violence against women and the fetishization of female bodies and sexuality, etc, in the meantime. And we take heart from how countries like Iceland and Sweden edge towards attempting to address gender inequality and female oppression as expressed through the institution of prostitution. We also take heart from countries (Iceland again!) which try to address the huge under-representation of women in politics.

I think you may be underestimating the all pervading might of the status quo if you think I can answer your above questions in less than the contents of a very long treatise of many volumes and probably involving several authors!

Beachcomber - re radical feminism; 'the current status quo is intrinsically wrong and cannot be righted. We want a whole new system altogether...'

What is the proposed method for introducing such a system, both in the UK and further afield? Is there a plan, a timeline, an approach? How would it be implemented in theocratic countries, or does rad fem accept that not all countries would be receptive to it?

"A lot of women friends said they would have left their husbands if they could no longer be the provider."

I am flabbergasted.

I don't think I know anyone who would say that the woman working was emasculating - around here families all seem to muck in with work/childcare etc - but that first thing people said is just unbelievable.

Yes, lots of people mistakenly think that feminists want a reversal of the current status quo.

I'm what is called a radical feminist and our point of view is that the current status quo is intrinsically wrong and cannot be righted. We want a whole new system altogether, where the social construction of gender doesn't exist, and one's sex does not decide one's status (indeed there will be no hierarchy of status, but that is starting to get into the abstract!)

fabwoman (and Gurl) - most feminist I know take a gender-neutral starting position on most things. Most non-feminists tend to start from a more traditional position and so gender-neutral stuff seems a bit "out there". Taking a feminist position doesn't mean a reversal of the status quo, it just means a "me too" for women. Start from there and you can't go far wrong.

SardineQueen thanks for that :) we manage Ok, although it is hard sometimes, especially as DS1 is disabled too. Not quite how I saw my life going when we got married.

Interestingly enough, I had a lot of opposition from friends and family when I went back to work full time when DH became disabled and lost his job. If I had not done this, we would have lost our house etc. A lot of women friends said they would have left their husbands if they could no longer be the provider. Others said I was emasculating him by working full time with him being the one at home. I was totally shocked by both view points as I felt we were/are a partnership and help each other out. One of us had to work to support the family and all we did was swap around traditional roles.

Actually, I often joke that I can see why men preferred the 50s way of life. It's much easier to be the one working and come home to dinner on the table, the paperwork done, shopping done etc.!

In fact it has given our DSs an interesting slant on life, I think.

No, no, no don't be fooled! We are joyless...sexless...stay away or you'll be infected with our man hating too

When I was 8 I was never going to be married either and would only have girl children, I was veeery sniffy about boys back then

Hi Fabwoman

I have lurked here for years and learned a lot but I still feel my feminism is an instinctive thing, I can't link to books or blogs but I remember a thread here where someone said they didn't want equality, they wanted liberation and that really chimed with me. I am not ugly because I have a grey hair, nor desirable because I wear a size 10. I'm not a prude just because I don't want my childrens' future relationships dictated by porn The work I do inside my home isn't worth less than the work I do outside my home. Feminism works to change this and that's why I'm a feminist

I'm so pleased you didn't believe the MN stereotypes about this board. I've seen your posts around and about. I'm glad you've made your way here

lol at 'that might have been the wrong thing to say'

you might know that what you mean is 'raising a baby as a single mother is hard and i wouldn't wish that for you - i want you achieve the world and not know hardship, and i want you to be hetero desperately because the world is a hard enough place without challenging the status quo', but an 8yo would just look at you as though you were a crazy lady if you came out with that.

if she was your 38yo single (i dunno, lawyer?) daughter and you were having the same discussion, it would be rather about what she was intending to do about work - was she going to take time out, or employ a nanny, or use childcare. and whether she thought she was doing the right thing/ was prepared for other people to judge her.

i tend to use the 'people usually are married when they have a baby, but not everyone is. sometimes it can be harder if you aren't', and then go on to discuss why if it comes up.

she just wants to know she can have/ adopt a baby without having a boring old man along for the ride. she isn't really interested in the politics of marriage or single motherhood at this point.

i think feminism has a lot to say about the institution of marriage... but i don't think that's what your 8yo means. it is all about the expectations of women in our society - so is very tied up in the issues that feminists wrangle with, so not completley separate.

i prefer to think of it as not being narrow minded, rather than feminist in itself.

GWTFC I am sorry to hear about your DH.

Weeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllll

I would wish my daughter to have a child/ren if she wants them when she is in a position of stability
I have a good relationship and that is nice and so I would want that for her
She is 4 and goes to a CofE school which is all quite traditional
In this context the whole "married" thing is shorthand for stable relationship, in the world DD inhabits
I always point out that sometimes there are two mummies or two daddies
And that sort of thing
So I am fence-sitting on the married thing a bit.

Your DD is 8. Like madwoman says - that is very young! And who knows when she is older how she will be.
I think she sounds quite cool though

I stayed at home with the DCs until they went to school and never felt that I was not being a feminist. We decided as a couple that, if possible, I would bf them until they self-weaned and that one of us would stay at home until they started school. As I earned less than DH (and had the right equipment to bf ), I was happy to stay at home. Of course, it wasn't always totally fulfilling every minute, but on the whole I enjoyed the time with them.

DH worked and also did all of the food shopping and cooking. I did most of the housework, but he pitched in at weekends. I went back to work when the DCs were at school and didn't have any problem picking up my career again.

Now, DH is at home full-time as he is unable to work through severe disability, and I work full-time. He still manages the shopping, cooking and paperwork.

Our sons consider it normal that men shop and cook and women work and do stuff with computers.

I am happy with how we have all supported each other by taking on responsibilities between us. It doesn't always work and we have arguments sometimes where we air our frustrations, but these always result in things being sorted out for everyone's benefit.

Agree with madwoman. And re the pt job thing, in an ideal world pt would not be seen as lesser. One if the things I am very lucky with is I am part time but pro rata I get paid the same as I would were I ft at this point in my career and I have no drop in status. That is rare. So many employers will only employ pt for the jobs lower down the scale and see it as somehow less committed. In a world of my design pt work would be valued the same as ft work, and women and men could readily balance work and family life with no resulting disadvantage.

I like to keep these things simple.

For me being a feminist is being a person who wants an end to the current situation of male supremacy. Who wants women to be liberated from male oppression.

If you fancy reading up on some of the concepts and tools of feminist analysis, this site is a great place to begin.

And welcome .

of course she doesn't want or need a man. she's 8.

when she's 28, she might want a man. or a woman. plenty of time for her to work that out later on. or not.

as long as she knows her options are open and not limited to 'find a man by 18 and have a couple of babies or end up a dry and wizened old hag' then you have nowt to worry about.

that's kind of what i meant - what is it that this society ascribes 'value' to?

yep, women have 'careers'. was the thread about women having to model themselves on masculine ideals to be deemed to be successful? (ie to have a 'career' and not 'sahm'.) were you surprised that feminists are more interested in ascribing equal value to different roles in and out of the home rather than suggesting all women should go and break balls have a 'career'?

i think questioning why more women than men sah is valid, but don't particularly have any strong feelings as to how people should arrange their own families or whether women (or men) work ft. we're all individuals.

i don't like it when women devalue their own roles against a predominantly masculine yardstick though. in an idea world emn would be able to take pt jobs and sah in the same way that women are expected to now. but nothing is going to change overnight. every little helps.

not needing a man to do everything for you is an entirely different kettle of fish to not sharing 'everything' you have to do with a man in a partnership. everyone sorts out their 'to-do' list differently and dishes out the jobs. it's nice to be capable of everything but still have someone to share the grot with. as well as the good stuff, natch.

(it wasn't that horrible joyless and antisex thing, was it?)

To me it sounds like you have a great relationship where you appreciate each others contributions and have arranged things in the way that best suits your family. And you are happy.

Sounds like a great relationship to me, as a feminist and as a person!

I could tell you the things that I get exercised about, as a feminist?

Things like looking at the situation for women in places like afghanistan and saudi and feeling how depressingly awful it is
Reading the relationships board on here and seeing how many women are in dire situations
The "We believe you" campaign trying to smash through rape myths, and reading the stories of women who have shared them
Loads of stuff
You staying at home looking after your children and pumping up tyres while your DH earns money and your family works and you are all happy, is not something I am going to get exercised about! It makes me

I do think that structural change is needed in the UK when it comes to families and who does what and how and when - what the options are, how they are supported and so on - but that is a separate thing.

It's a disadvantage in terms of things like pension, status, income. And not being a sahm also has disadvantages. That's what I mean. And all those disadvantages are a result of the way society is set up. For example being a sahm could be venerated as the absolute best thing anyone could do. Instead earning money and having a big house and fancy car is held up as something to aspire to. All cos of the way society is set up. Women are damned if they do damned if they don't if you look at what is generally discussed. It's not do much a personal feeling, I'm pretty happy with my life, but I have a lot if options that buck the trend rather than are the trend iyswim.