Girls don't cycle?? What's up with that?

It depends on the country. I don't think you will find those differences in countries like Holland, Sweden, Germany, ... My DD was highly amused when she was 10 and a friend's 14 year old daughter said she wouldn't run to catch a bus because it would make her look 'silly'. I'm abroad for a while and I agree with Himalaya. There is a difference. That was something I noticed too. It just seems the girls who have been pinkified are reluctant to do anything that involves moving fast. On the other hand, cycling isn't a big thing in the UK. I remember someone telling me that adult cyclists were a bit weird. I could hardly believe my ears. In Holland or Germany you would probably be considered weird or poorly educated if you or your kids didn't cycle.

"It is the loss of walking and manual labour in modern life which is one reason people are so much less fit rather than the fact they may not be a member of a gym or running club."

Absolutely agree. Fortunately, my post-modern life involves struggling with a 19th/early 20th century (pre-car) urban environment! Lots of walking...

...or you might be able to get a sporting scholarship at Millfield if you really think your child has Olympian potential, as they probably wouldn't manage to be both a leading surgeon and an olympic athlete anyway...I know some extremely wealthy and successful Millfieldians, by the way! Bloody hell, if I thought one of my dc had that potential and could get them in there for free I would jump at the chance!

My point was really that girls at co-ed schools can have as many opportunities as those at single-sex, if not more, because bigger schools may have access to better facilities, through economies of scale, also a wider selection of sports on offer for example girls' rugby at dd's school is coached by the boys' PE teacher. Not all schools offer rugby for girls. They also have an indoor swimming pool because of the size of the site.

I asked my husband who cycle commutes everyday and he reckons the split is 50/50.

I read somewhere, sorry cannot remember the refferance that you need a couple of generations of being used to enough food, before eating habits change. Also that the first generation to be sufficiently nourished often just get fat, because of being malnourished before birth / in early childhood, whereas subsequent generations are taller. I wonder if this is in part to blame for the poverty/obesity link ?

In fact it used to be the poor who took more exercise because they couldn't afford cars and did not have enough food and now it is all reversed - the poor move much less and eat badly.

Indeed. In fact we would be better if children and adults did more physical activity to get from A to B and in normal life than specific sports. It is the loss of walking and manual labour in modern life which is one reason people are so much less fit rather than the fact they may not be a member of a gym or running club.

I really dislike this idea that being sporty means being elite. I really don't want my kids to be elite athletes. It's a narrow and often physically destructive path. I want my kids to enjoy a wide range of sports and develop their all round physical prowess to good levels, stay heathy and have fun.

(Millfield is about position 850 for A level results so not exactly top of the exam tables but they certainly like their sport. If we want girls to become leading surgeons etc we would not send them to schools like Millfield.)

Sport and class though is another interseting issue although not a gender issue. something like 50% of Olympians in the UK went to fee paying schools and 7% of children go there. So perhaps the best way to ensure your daughters are sporty is pick a career which will enable you as a woman to be able to fund school fees for them.

LieIns - I mentioned it and that kind of thing makes me

Somebody mentioned men's sport being prioritised and I'd like to give an example from my hockey club: Women's teams practice and play at a school pitch which is about to be replaced after 10 years, it's not bad but obviously the new one will be FAB and a more modern material which will not hurt so much when you fall over, etc...guess what?

The mens' teams (and men outnumber women in the club by over 2:1) are very keen to adopt the new pitch when it is ready, relegating the women to the pitch the men have been using.

@suchProspects - I think I agree with you: lack of take up of exercise in daily life (not just organised sport) is a public health issue.

I work in public health - I am trying to figure out a way of making it my issue!

Time, place and person, the foundations of epidemiology. Who participates, where and when, and what are the differences in who, where and when between those who do, and those who don't?

Sorry Himalaya, cross posted with you trying to get back on track!

That is a good question about what girls value over the independence, but I do wonder whether it gives them the same independence. Would they go off anyway?

I think these are two different but linked subjects, too. I was discouraged by my family from roaming everywhere on my bike as it was vaguely considered unseemly and not safe. My discouragement with sport at school (bullying sports teachers, focus and prestige on 1 or 2 team sports and not on ways to enjoy fitness, strength and activity, sexual harrasment, all of it) was a.distinct experince to my parents essentially not wanting me 'out all hours with who knows who' : eg not free.to travel independently and possibly snog boys, or whatever.

I found it wasn't just harder for married women. When I left university I wanted to continue playing hockey, but the only casual women's or mixed team played on the one day I couldn't make. My male peers on the other hand had a wealth of kick-a-bout footie teams they could take up with, ones associated with work, pubs, churches and the local Labour club. Things are possibly a bit different now, but at the time I definitely would not have been welcome had I tried to join in. When I moved to London I went to Regents Park to see if they had any casual hockey teams, but it turns out they only did rugby, football and cricket there - none of which are sports that most of my female peers would have learnt growing up.

I know it's a bit chicken and egg - no women to participate, no facilities for women, no where for women to learn to participate, or for girls to see participation as normal, etc. It's particularly difficult with team sports because you need a larger critical mass just to get something small started.

I agree with Xenia that women tend to be busier than men once they marry and have kids. I don't write that off with a "more fool them" though. I think it's a public health issue that requires attention from civil society. But I think sport is dropped long before that and I still wonder - why?

It would be interesting to ask some teenage girls why they don't see bikes as being for them as a form of transport.

I'm another one who lived on my bike when I was young and still use one a lot now. Having said that, I did go through a teenage phase where I was more likely to use the bus or walk with friends. Bus journey were for going into town though and it was a bit far to cycle. I used to cycle to the bus stop though.

(That was girls under-16s hockey btw)

Wow, finally something I agree with Xenia about! Yes they do have to carry more to school (although if dd would use the b locker I have paid for I don't think it would be so bad). Also agree (and my own experience confirms this) it tends to be harder for 'married' women to continue sport even if they love it.

Laughing very hard at Millfield comment...you manage to insult so many people with every post, Xenia! OK I know it's not selective but it is not actually a requirement to be thick to go there! (PILs taught there) Did your son's school beat them, by any chance?

BTW just looked up dd's school sports results and see we drew 1-1 with Bedales in a friendly! Any insults you'd like to fling that way?

Children when they are under 10 are largely influenced by their parents. Teenagers of which I have had 3 are influenced by their peers at school by and large.

I dont' know what made my daughters sporty as music is our main hobby at home and also got 1 or 2 grade 8 music exams too. They were at private schools - North London Collegiate - set up in the 1800s by some very leading edge female educationlists Miss Buss and Miss Beale so a good school for feminists and the other at Haberdashers. Both schools have lots of sport. The reason they got into riding was they did it at a school holiday club when they were 5 and 6. The reason they ski is because of family holidays. They go to bikram yoga with me when we all have time.

(Millfield only if you're a bit thick.... although I think 1 or 2 of mine have played rugby there occasionally - sons not daughters and hopefully were not sullied by the lack of brains...)

Back on the themse of the thread which is why do more men than women cycle. In general women are busier because they are silly enough to marry sexist men and do more at home than their men, more fool them. Secondly they may be up more in the night with the baby so might want 2 hours sleep at the weekend than a long cycle ride. Thirdly perhaps they have to cvarry more. I always cycled to the tube and I had to have massive luggage straps for huge bags. It is not easy taking stuff around. One reason my youngest won't cycle to school is because of the msasive music instruments, kit bags and homework bags they carry. If we could restore proper desks at schools, have lots of places to leave things and have most homework uploaded and then easily downloaded so you do not need to carry much to and from school you would find more children able to cycle to school.

"It isn't true in my experience".

The point is that your experience is limited, whereas people/organisations who conduct research in this field and then write about it (in peer reviewed journals) have information at their disposal which goes beyond their direct experience. I have never experienced domestic violence for example, but I don't doubt it exists.

As SuchProspects said - "Xenia's arguments about being exposed to an active and sporting lifestyle are also true, but do not account for the difference between male and female participation, unless, for some reason, families with girls tend not to be as sporting."

There is a difference between participation rates in sport between men and women which this thread is exploring, particularly with regard to cycling.

I haven't treated you as a "nasty man", your gender is irrelevant to me in this instance.

Xenia makes good points, though incomplete (apparently). I make trite and unaware comments! And yet we both miss the same point.......

There are almost certainly other reasons besides bone-idleness why people don't participate in sport. I never said this was the only factor. But look at this quote;

'If there is a girl and a boy in the same family, where the parents are active and encourage the children to be active, the girl is more likely to be inactive. Fact.'

Based upon what? Should I just put 'fact' after all my posts? Because it isn't true in my experience, and I have been shown no proof.

Ah bollocks, I can't be bothered any more. Enjoy your patting each other on the back. The nasty man who tried to be polite and reasonable has been shown the door.

I disagree about single sex schools. My daughter's large mixed comp is VERY sporty, and both boys and girls excel and do not even bother playing the other two schools in town as the results are embarassing (for the other schools!) I think you will get better facilities in a large mixed school than for example in an all-girls faith school. Most people are in state, not private education - I know there are some fine facilities in both mixed and single sex private schools, (but not all - some are very poor.)

Millfield, anybody?

Xenia talks much sense.

Sanjeev, I'm sorry you feel you are being the unfair target of criticism but your arguments seem too trite to me.

Children do not blithely follow their parents' example, in sport or in anything else. Yes parental influence is a contributory factor but it's not the be all and end all. That just ignores all of the other influences on a child's life - society, education, personality, media...

Children have become less active over the years (a trend which is reversing, although the effects are uneven over gender, income levels, ethnicity and disability). So they are (overall) doing less activity then their parents.

If there is a girl and a boy in the same family, where the parents are active and encourage the children to be active, the girl is more likely to be inactive. Fact.

This has made me :(. I love cycling when I met dh it was my primary form of transport. We regularly go on bike rides as a family and I am hoping to get dd's stabilisers off this summer. It would be so sad if dd didn't enjoy cycling as much as the rest.of us in her teenage years. Maybe what Xeina says is right and as long as the rest of us continue to cycle she will follow suit. However peer pressure is massive in senior school...