Parenting a boy is a feminist minefield!

I've got two young boys (4.5 and 16 months) and have been thinking about this a lot over recent months. DS1 loves all things 'superhero' at the moment but I am bothered by how few positive female characters there are amongst the Spiderman/Batman/Transformers stuff. Already, at such a young age, he's being bombarded with 'boys do and girls watch' messages.

Happily, their father is also a feminist so I am crossing my fingers that between us we'll be able to raise a pair of decent human beings :)

Ds1 quickly pointed out that the man who looked after him in A&E had been a man
Whoops! Ds1 quickly pointed out that the man who looked after him in A&E had been a nurse!

I have 2 boys aged 7 and 4 so this is interesting to me. I have 2 sisters (and a brother) and always imagined having girls myself.

My boys are totally different. Ds1 has girls and boys as friends whereas ds2 has only ever had boys. Ds1 is happy to wear pink and doesn't like football although he does have certain other "boy" traits. Ds2 loves football and is very quick to gender everything. He recently spent 4 weeks in hospital. On his ward there were only male doctors and female nurses so he informed me one day that only boys could be doctors and girls had to be nurses. Ds1 quickly pointed out that the man who looked after him in A&E had been a man and that girls and boys could be whatever they wanted. I don't know where the difference comes from.

"But what I find frustrating in my circle is that if you put a girl in a pirate themed babygro everyone applauds. If I do the same then it's anti-feminist."

Has that actually happened then?

Drawing is a great activity to encourage in your DS, Madame - a lot of boys get a bit left behind when it comes to learning to write because it's thought they don't tend to practice wielding a pencil as much as girls when younger. Partly because many boys (not all, by any means!!) prefer more active play or, if they are sitting still, prefer to do it in front of a video game or the TV (I'm aware this can equally apply to girls..!) - and partly because of a wide assumption that boys need to be more active and aren't encouraged to do as many things that involve sitting still and honing their fine motor skills (compared with girls) - like drawing. Who cares if it's monsters? The fact that he's enjoying drawing is great and will stand him in good stead when he's writing.

I agree with OMDB.
It's much more about what you model in your attitudes, opinions and the way you live your life rather than what interests DCs have.

I am concerned about this because DCs arrival more or less coincided with our move to France and DH becoming the higher earner for the first time in our relationship as I was only being able to find PT work, therefore I logically became the one who does more of the house and child work because I'm more present.

Fortunately we have plenty of friends who have a less traditional set up so DCs see men taking on bulk of childcare, women being the breadwinners and grandparent set ups where one grandfather is in charge of cooking and the other in grandfather in charge of the laundry so I'm hoping they'll see our set up as just one of many options.

and even if our DSs conform to gender stereotypes as children, and wear blue and play football and climnb trees and burp and fart and laugh about it, doesn't mean we aren't raising them as feminists. They can do all those things and still be feminists.

~Just like girls can wear pink, like fluffy sparkly things, play with dolls and not like to get dirty and still be feminists.

The thing is, to educate them to respect all other people, regardless of those people's choices or anatomy.

What do you mean? Do you mean if you pt your DS in something pirate themed people would disapprove? I don't get that. If people react that way while applauding someone else for letting a girl wear pirate themed clothes then they are clearly ignorant and don't understand feminism.

Girls are allowed to dress 'as boys' because masculine is superior: they are aiming up. Boys have less freedom because they'd be lowering themselves.

(he may get a penchant for fairy or ballet dresses later but I don't think you should've put him in them at 2 at your own instigation - it should be the child's own choice. In our case I cheer inwardly and my partner sighs inwardly when our son chooses pink clothes but we both recognise it's his choice - and I accept my inward cheering has a shelf-life on it)

I don't quite understand what the problem is really.

Stop seeing your child's choices, or your choices for them, as being solely based on your child's gender. So what that he's a boy?! If he likes and wants a certain toy, or is into a certain sport or hobby or interest, then allow him to experience that. Forget about whether society classes those activities or toys as for 'boys' or 'girls'.

Having a son who is really into something traditionally male doesn't go against anything that feminists stand for.

That's interesting Ilovedaintynuts, I have two boys and it certainly hasn't tamed my feminism, it's made me more passionate about it - feminists have always said patriarchy hurts men too, and I agree it's interesting to see the other side, how masculinity is constructed starting with a pirate-themed babygro....

I think the most interesting thing about raising a boy as a feminist is that you get a view from 'the other side'.
Obviously most have us have only ever been a woman so a son makes you question about what life is like growing up as a boy.
It tamed my feminism actually and I saw that feminism has its limitations and life has different challenges for both sexes (in the UK in the 21st century).

I have girls and a boy and see areas that my daughters have advantages over boys (education system, socially preferred).

I think it gives you balance as a person and as a feminist.

It is only a feminist minefield if you want it to be. You can look at it as the difference between boys and girls or you could look at it as the difference between individuals. No gender stuff (except for the fact they wear more blue than girls) just what they enjoy doing.

I am sure that most boys/girls have no concept of sexuality or differences until they get to school - my DC1 has pretended to breastfeed, change nappies and expressed an interest in the colour pink. However, he also likes trains, diggers and pretending to be a lion. I don't encourage him or discourage, he is only 3.

I'm currently reading Lise Eliot's Pink Brain, Blue Brain and finding a lot of interesting stuff about the similarities/differences between girls and boys. Eliot is fundamentally in agreement with Cordelia Fine in that male and female brains are essentially the same. However she believes there are a few things which are probably a result of hormonal differences which tend to predispose boys in some ways (higher activity rates, for example) and girls in others. However, she believes those differences are actually very small and are greatly exacerbated by socialisation/expectations etc.

It's certainly easier to get support to encourage a girl to break out of female stereotyping than it is to encourage boys to reach beyond their male stereotyping.
I heard a mother calling her two year-old DS a "wuss" the other day because he's currently going through a clingy phase. I can't help suspecting she would have been more tolerant of that type of behaviour from a girl (or, at least used different language to describe it). At young ages, people tend to look askance at boys who are more drawn to stereotypically feminine activities. Hogwash, of course, and incredibly limiting for boys.

One of the loveliest images I saw was a little boy walking into school with his mum to drop of his older sister. He was tenderly clutching a barbie doll. He did this for about a year. I hope he looks back on that memory without embarassment.

I have a 10 year old son who is very feminist in his outlook, much more than his two older sisters. I wonder how he got that! Possibly due to his dad not being in the house for two years.

I had a boy friend in primary school who loved playing girl games. We enjoyed his company but he did get stick from his male peers. He didn't like football much. He's married now with children.

MadameBoolala, why should you have less influence over your child then say ad executives that will push certain products at your son because he's a boy, or the dominant culture which says that your son must behave a certain way because he is male?

Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by not wanting to force your son down an alleyway because it fits your agenda?

My 2 year old DS loves to play with toy cuddly animals at toddler groups and often carries them around like a baby saying, "Ahhh, hug". I'm pregnant with DC2 so I'm not sure if he's picked up on me talking about babies or what, but generally he's a sensitive soul.

From a young age he's loved watching buses, trains and trucks in our town and loves driving past the local harbour and seeing boats dock. This isn't something I've pushed on him but something he's gravitated towards. Same goes for his love of playing with toy cars etc. At home we mainly have 'boyish' toys as that is what people buy him for Christmas and birthday's, but in toddler groups he'll play with anything.

I bought him a toy buggy recently and my (sexist arse of a man) FIL referred to it as a "wheelchair" as he didn't want to call it a buggy but I have no issue with him putting teddies and toys in and pushing it around.

At a toddler group recently I overheard two mums talk about a boy who was pushing a toy buggy and the said that they were worried he'd become gay from doing it. My face was

Sometimes I do feel it's a bit of a minefield being a parent, full stop, irrespective of gender of the child!