I can see the attraction of this, but I also think, knowing MN as I do that another thread would pretty much be guaranteed to start up and it's v hard to put a lid on it without really peeing people off.

I'm really not trying to twist your words FrothyDragon - I'm trying to explain that what may look like an act of support for F4J/ betrayal of the fem boards is the moderating team here doing what you'd expect of them - deleting posts that break our guidelines and that you would also delete.

And an invasion - ie let's go on and tell those mumsnetters why they've got it all wrong - isn't necessarily the same as trolling tbh (ie deliberately misleading/antagonising). I think we ought to be able to be robust enough to be able to debate the issue, with the caveat, of course, that if visitors turn out merely to be here to wind up or hear to spread hatred then they are not welcome.

Well so do you think it's right then, that we leave up posts saying eg that all F4J members are wife-batterers or should we delete them?

(In no way trying to say we got the balance entirely right yesterday)

We weren't unaware of the trolling NP - not sure how many times I can apologise and say that we got it wrong yesterday...

I agree with much of that NarkedPuffin - but I still don't think it's fair to make the leap that everyone associated with F4J is a DV agnostic.

We don't allow misogynistic attacks from people about how much they hate women. As said we will look at those posts - they've probably already gone.
It was a subtler point I was making really (and possibly not very useful) about how you can never really know about someone's prejudices and we don't put a sign up at the door saying "only pro-women folks allowed". Mumsnet is for parents - we believe in posters equally and on the basis of what they post.

We've taken a look and deleted that post on our Facebook wall now, thanks for flagging it to us.

I don't particularly feel the need to engage with them, and I think we were far too emollient yesterday, as said, but I don't believe the issue they raise around fathers' rights should be off-limits for discussion.

Yes it is possible to take a better approach than we did yesterday. Which is why we have apologised and said we didn't get it right.

In general though, reports are NEVER ignored, but we don't always agree with the analysis. It's the policy/conspiracy point that I take issue with, though - we try v hard to treat each report on it's merit and in context.

We don't only allow posts from people who "like" women but we will look at the DV claim for sure and delete if it's as you say. thanks for pointing out.

I think it's more important to get on with our behind the scenes investigative action - particularly given that now I've posted, the thread makes more sense with it left as is.

We certainly did delete some posts that we shouldn't - but, as said, not all of the deletions were unwarranted - some posts were unfair and/or potentially libellous. As said when you are being bombarded with reports it's not easy. You should come into Mumsnet Towers some time and take a look at what it's like in a firestorm - and I mean that seriously.

You shouldn't just assume that we have let invaders run around willy nilly. It's the usual story, it just takes a bit longer and more investigation to establish who's an invader and who isn't (a day, maybe two) whereas it only takes a second to delete a post. Put another way why do folks always seem to assume that because they can't necessarily see any action, no action is occurring?

We put an awful lot of resource into looking into these things, as it happens. As I understand it we have a larger, paid community management team than pretty much all the big forum sites many of which are more profitable than MN and that team is unbelievably dedicated and fantastic (though not infallible!)

But we're not always going to agree with you that all all reported posts break our guidelines - it comes down to this what's valid debate and what is deliberately provocative wind up guff area and it's not always as clear cut a decision as some folks think.

But this idea that there is a systematic conspiracy/official attitude towards the fems board is way off the mark. I'm a feminist, as I suspect most of MNHQ are. It's just that we are also committed to free speech and debate and wish to allow differing opinions. It's a core tenet of what MN is about.

Hi all,
I've had a good butchers at the deleted posts here and I do agree that we have been a bit over-zealous with the deletions on this thread. I think there have been some dodgy allegations that we were right to delete plus and some unfair tarring all members of an organisation with a wife battering brush-type posts but lots of the posts we deleted were valid opinions about the way F4J members interact and the tactics they use.

Secondly F4J clearly have done themselves no favours by posting crap on our facebook wall and trolling Gingerbread and understandably that has raised the hackles of some normally completely and utterly temperate Mumsnetters .

So to those on this thread who've been deleted and shouldn't have been, many apologies. We do make mistakes sometimes - trust me, it's not always easy to make the right calls when the reports are flying thick and fast.

And to members of Fathers4Justice posting here please note: We are a site that allows and positively encourages diverse opinion and debate but our overriding aim is to make people's lives easier. If you are merely here to antagonise and/or to contribute nothing beyond an intransigent view on a single issue rather than enter into honest debate, then you are not welcome and will be banned.

Hello

Sorry, I can only respond quickly tonight because frankly, I was supposed to knock off about five hours ago.

The only contact (as far as I know) we have had with F4J is via the Mumsnet twitter account's open feed. You're welcome to have a look via @mumsnettowers. The wording Nadine O'Connor is reported to have used on their Facebook page is not the wording in our Tweets to her.

Thanks
MNHQ

Hello gender warriors

Please can I remind all and sundry to follow our roooles about personal attacks, please? We welcome robust debate, but outright abuse directed at fellow MNers (of any persuasion) will be deleted. And we'd hate to have to delete the entire thread as a bunfight...

Thanks
MNHQ