"Miss goes missing on French official forms" - let's do the same here!

An aside to those of you who dislike Ms because of the way it sounds - I agree with you, I would prefer to be Mrs. But only if ALL WOMEN were Mrs, regardless of marital status.

Until that happens, I will identify with Ms, because it is the only logical option available to feminists and/or any women who wants to be treated as an adult on their own merit, not their state of attachment to a man.

The sound of it is irrelevant, and anyone who doesn't use it purely because of the sound while ignoring the principles of the protest is surely a tad shallow, IMO.

For whoever asked - yes, you can be Ms HisName if you like. You can call yourself anything you like - there are no rules. I'm Ms HisName, or Ms MyName HisName, depending on how much name-writing energy I have at the time.

Mx (From Wikipaedia): "Mx, a gender-neutral honorific replacing "Mr." and "Ms.""

well in principle I would prefer the French and German option and Mrs for all adult women.

Making up a third title in my opinion was a mistake and I don't know any other languages who have anything similar. As it is there now then yes, I would prefer this to be the default one and honestly I don't understand why so many people object.

The main argument I've heard is that you can't pronounce it, but I don't buy that -if you can pronounce, say, illegitimate or entrepreneurial or Mrs, which is no more a word than Ms, then [miz] should not be that complicated either.

Hazlenutt - are you saying that the default option should be Ms? Then if you so choose to correct them with either Miss or Mrs?
Sounds good in principal - however I think there are many who just don't like the sound of Ms.
PS I'm Mrs, I kept my maiden name after marriage, thereafter with the arrival of children I wanted us to all have the same name, so I took DHSurname. For a while I kept my maiden name at work and other places where I'm an individual - but to be honest it just got tiring after a while having two names. So opted to be Mrs everywhere.

strawberry You wouldn't be asked if you were a Ms because people would ususally be able to see or hear that you were female.

I would prefer to do away with titles altogether. But for as long as some women demand the right to choose their title, women who would rather not be asked do not have that option.

SDTG - like your DH, if there was an option for my DH to use a married title, he would. And I would then not complain about Mrs. But there isn't. So I see your point. But until my marital status and DH's marital status are seen as equally valid/invalid, I will continue to find Mrs and Miss frustrating when I see other women use it because of the intrinsic double standard.

DH is also used to being referred to as MrLoving. I pointed out that if he wants his name on things, he should start booking hotels and holidays! He is okay with it.

Wouldn't you then be asked if you are a Ms? How is that much different? Not trying to start a fight I'm genuinely interested :) I've never really explored the opposite side of this as I like my Mrs

No, I wasn't clear: some women insist that they should be addressed as Mrs because they are married. Therefore people who do not know me, ask me as well: "And is this Miss or Mrs Nutt?" (I have not been asked yet if it might be Ms), basically if I'm married or not. Just having the option to tell them "none of your business" is not the same than not being asked the first place.

Why could we not have it the other way, that everybody would be Ms but you had the option to specify that you are in fact married and committed?

HazelNutt isn't that what the Ms choice is for? It enables people who don't wish to declare themselves as Miss/Mrs to do so while letting others declare as they wish.

Why don't I like the Miss/Mrs/Ms choice? Because as long as there are women who insist that they should be able to declare their undying love and commitment daily to paperclip salesmen choose, then they are effectively taking away my choice not to be asked if I'm married, single or bitter divorced lesbian feminist in situations where it is not the least bit relevant.

BlingLoving - you are assuming that my dh does not have any of the same desire to demonstrate that his priorities changed when he got married - but I am sorry to tell you that you are just plain wrong about that. I have had this discussion with dh, and he says that if there was a man's title that demonstrated that he was married, he would use it.

And anyhow - I thought that the whole point was that I was to make my own decisions, as an independant person, without constantly referring to dh for validation - so why would I need him to change his title in order to validate my choice to change mine?

Bling - I can honestly say it doesn't feel strange to me at all. Maybe it's because my mum is happy as a Mrs as well and my parents have set me a great example of how a good marriage works. I also know that if DH was questioned for any reason or there was a male equivalent he would happily say he was married/ use the equivalent .

I agree BlingLoving - it's such a one-sided declaration isn't it? It's a the epitome of "man and wife" instead of "husband and wife" I guess.

I am married but prefer to use miss. Please don't take that away from me!

smacks own wrist for being a bad feminist

Good point well-expressed BlingLoving.

Strawberry, I understand why you feel the way you do. But let me ask you this: doesn't it feel strange that you make a public declaration about your partnership with DH every time you go to the bank, or order a new set of curtains online but he never ever does. No tradesman he deals with knows or cares that he is in a loving and successful partnership with you?

Personally I dislike Ms, I was quite happy using Miss before I was married and I love using Mrs now I am. It is another public declaration that my DH and I are a partnership and I love him. However I understand that others feel differently so I don't understand the problem with having a choice.

Does anybody use the gender free term "Mx"?

"I feel that marriage and family changed things about me - some of my priorities, for example - and that I have changed as a person because of my commitment to my dh and my family, and Mrs shows that, for me - had I remained not married, and remained Miss SDTGMaidenname, I would be a different person now. And I wouldn't have lived with a man and had a family with him, without being married - personal choice, and no criticism of anyone who does it differently, but I felt marriage was the right way for me to do this."

SDTG: I understand all of what you just said. But for me, the fact that your DH does not have any of the same desire to demonstrate that his priorities changed once he got married and had a family is the issue. Why is it necessary for women to demonstrate this in how they're called? I also changed as a person as a result of being married and having DS. My priorities have definitely changed too. So does DH. More so than me in fact. But he doesn't have a new title that reflects the fact that he's now a family man and not a carefree bloke around town so why should I?

I'm sorry if it seems like I'm going on at you. I'm not. It's just how I feel about the whole Mrs thing.

Choc, germany has dropped Fraulein a long time ago. All women are Frau like all men are Herr, and nobody asks if you are married when ordering paperclips.

What blingloving said.

If some/many women prefer to retain the option of Miss, Mrs, Ms as it gives them a choice, but upsets those who understandably feel that their marital status is irrelevant, why not leave female titles as they are and introduce Mr (for married men) and Master (for unmarried men) on official forms so that men then have to state whether or not they take their status from being married

I agree with BlingLoving too.

What is the point of being given a title relating to our marital status in the 21st century? Why does it matter? If it doesn't matter to a man whether he's "linked to his family and children" by the use of a title, why should it matter to us? And yes, why bother with titles at all?

It all seems very outmoded. It's natural to kick against changes in what we regard as "traditional" as we've grown up with these ideas and cultural habits so they consequently feel "right", but that doesn't make them so - or worth upholding.

I use Mrs DHSurname too. I honestly hadn't considered it before. I guess I just did it out of unquestioned tradition. If I had liked my maiden name then I guess I might have kept it and gone with Ms.

To be honest though.. at the time of getting married I had fallen out rather badly with my dad and was quite happy to drop 'his' name (we get on better now, though aren't close). I'd rather have the name of a man I had choosen to have in my life than another who I didn't choose. I was pretty at having to give my father's name and profession on my marriage certificate, what on earth did that have to do with anything?

I got my mum to sign as a witness though - which didn't look like too much of a snub for my dad because my DH's father is deceased, so we both had our mums sign.

Of course, I don't think a woman should have to have their surname derived from their husband, or their father, if they don't wish it.

Why do we refer to Drs, Profs and Revs as such outside their professional spheres? Isn't it a bit old fashioned to give them respect based on position? I mean, other professions don't get that. I think Firefighter Fireman Sam and Postie Postal Operative Postman Pat are exceptions rather than the rule. :)

Referring to myself as a wife on forms where it isn't relavent does seem a bit silly now you mention it. But I think it's a habit that society has that it would be difficult to get people enthusiastic about giving up, it just doesn't seem to be a big problem.

I take it the reason some women feel pleased (rather than indifferent) about being called Mrs is that it is a title they associated with adults when they were small so when they begin to call themselves that it makes them feel 'grown up'. Obviously it's a shame if grown unmarried women feel infantilised by being referred to as Miss though.

Do you think that there is actually a difference in how women are treated based on their title though? Or is it more like I feel a little child-like in social situations because I don't drink tea or coffee, and hot drinks were always something I associated with adults. But nobody treats me like a child just because I've turned down a cup (though they can be rather persistant!) it's just an association I have in my mind.

Do married women who use Ms still use their maiden names, or can you do it with married names too?