trans-vaginal ultrasound for no medical reason - Virginia, anti-choice

Viva are you seriously suggesting that the NHS in the UK would insist on a transvaginal scan in a 13 yo rape victim? I don't see it. Really I don't.

They would look at other sources of information - like the ones I mentioned - police, patient history, hormones, and come to a conclusion. If they absolutely had to perform a TV scan even after looking at all other info they might offer a GA.

The NHS would not force a child to undergo a TV scan in order to perform an abortion. They just wouldn't. Why are people who work in the NHS putting this about?

Sure it's an extreme example - but equally - 13yo get raped and want abortions, it's not that uncommon. And these are the sort of people this new law in virginia will really hurt.

Why is there a suggestion that people who have been raped should be offered a lower standard of diagnosis and appropriate treatment than people who have not been raped?

Viva coming back in a weeks time is no guarantee that another type of scan will work.

I had to have tv scans all through my second pregnancy as they couldn't see anything the usual way

What if I had been a rape victim in virginia?

wodaling that is exactly what I have been trying to get at but have unfortunately been frothing rather than writing succinct posts like yours

It is misleading, as has been extensively pointed out over the course of this thread.

Any serious point has been lost in amongst posts about forcing rape victims to have transvaginal scans.

Seeing as you asked, I've had a tv scan. Not sure that's relevant though.

Hormone levels wouldn't work, they're not accurate. They could be low but low not due to early gestation but due to impending miscarriage.

Palpation is too inaccurate.

Patient history, I said earlier I've seen women swear blind they can't be ore than 8 weeks and a scan finds them to be 13 weeks.

Police records might show when someone was raped but not that they got pregnant at the rape. Maybe they got pregnant three weeks earlier?

MRI and ct scans have long waiting lists and are expensive so no I can't imagine the nhs would offer those. Not even sure they could be used to accurately date a pregnancy either.

What they would probably do and I say this for about the fifth time is offer for them to come back in a weeks time if they declined a vaginal scan. And who's to say they won't do this in Virginia.?

I'm taking on board all ToothbrushThief's points about the medical justifications for a scan prior to abortion and am persuaded that this makes sense medically.

But I agree with Sardine Queen that this bill specifically pertains to ultrasounds for reasons for informed consent and that is suspicious. I don't see that it is necessary to have an ultrasound, costing you hundreds of dollars to boot, in order to give sufficiently informed consent to an abortion. The bill technically doesn't think so either, because it allows women to decline the offer to see the fetus and continue on to consent to the abortion procedure anyway. Yet it is nonetheless legally requiring the scan to be done - for the CONSENT reason (as stated at the top of the bill), NOT the medical reason, if I am reading it right.

So the bill's message, as I see it, is: "you can give sufficient consent to an abortion without seeing the fetus on a scan, but we insist you pay for one anyway because you might be even better informed". Which I can only interpret in the wider political context as: because it may change your mind. This is what bothers me about the bill. Even though the scan might be of value medically.

And that Texas ruling REALLY bothers me. You HAVE to see the scan??

Not misleading at all. This has nothing to do with women's health or why would it require a second scan to be performed immediately prior to the abortion?

Make sure you save some ire for this

Oh saf it was the thing that they put a condom on the TV probe thingy. That's what they do at my hosp anyway. That bit made it more invasive than a smear somehow.

Sorry, thats not fair, you were not the OP. Apologies

You probably would have got further with a non-misleading thread title.

I get the sense that people think I am going off on one

I am going off on one though. I am sick of this shit coming out of the states and I don't know what I can do to help with it and I am terrified that it is coming over here.

both prior to a d&c following miscarriage. hope i got it right, pretty sure it was dworkin who said she'd been through the same experience, apologies if i've muddled names.

saf I had to have tv scans with my second pg as they couldn't get a look using the usual method. I am not sure that coming back later will work for all women.

i have. dworkin has. don't know about anyone else.

Read up. This law would make it compulsory for women who had already had a scan elsewhere to have another scan right before the abortion. In a country where they will have to pay for that second scan, adding several hundred dollars to the cost of the abortion. Does that sound sensible?

The law would require a woman 'without her consent, to receive an ultrasound and give her ?an opportunity to view the ultrasound image of her fetus prior to the abortion"' Even when her doctor considered it medically unneccesary.

Does that sound like it's motivated by medical concerns?

Or does it sound like a precursor to this:

In Texas, a U.S. federal judge recently upheld a part of the law that would also require providers to describe and/or show a woman images of her fetus and require her to listen to the fetal heartbeat. The same law currently exists in North Carolina and Oklahoma, but is not being enforced

Well I'm not a doctor, obviously.

But if a rape victim didn't want a TV scan, they would find another way. In the UK, they would find another way.

How can you be so sure of that if you dont know what that way would be?

Well I did suggest 2

But further than that I'd say maybe

hormone levels
patient history
police records
cat scan
mri scan
palpating might do it

I don't think that a 13 yo rape victim would have to undergo a TV scan in the UK to get an abortion. I can't imagine that at all. Really I can't.

How many people on this thread have even had a TV scan, I wonder?

i think we all are aye.

i also think that everyone on here is prochoice and against banning abortion which means we're on the same side.

i think realistically it's probably right that the only way would be to come back later when an abdominal scan could be conclusive. the difference being that would be free here but would mean shelling out a whole load more money there. and quite possibly a very long journey.

I'd appreciate it if people didn't fight me. I am simply exploring my way through this, researching and posting links and info etc.

Well I'm not a doctor, obviously.

But if a rape victim didn't want a TV scan, they would find another way. In the UK, they would find another way.

How can you be so sure of that if you dont know what that way would be?