How can a parent let their child be beaten by an OH

Look towards the press to see how differently men and women who commit the same crimes are treated in the media, and the media reflects societies views, whether you like it or not.

So when a father abuses his children, why does everyone stand around saying "why did the mother let him do it, how could she"?

'I don't like your paeophilia analogy because it infantalises women. Women are not helpless, like children. They are adults, with adult responsibilities for their own behaviour.

I do not hold women to higher standards of behaviour than men, but I do believe parents have greater responsibility for their children than anyone else.'

Yes.

'it's like saying the answer to pedophilia is for each individual child to report and not put up with it and why on earth do they not tell someone etc.'

I don't like your paeophilia analogy because it infantalises women. Women are not helpless, like children. They are adults, with adult responsibilities for their own behaviour.

I do not hold women to higher standards of behaviour than men, but I do believe parents have greater responsibility for their children than anyone else. That includes mothers responsibility not to take up with men who are cruel to their children (and also for fathers not to marry wicked stepmothers).

I think it is a valuable discussion to have in a feminist context. But not as to why women specifically support and enable abusers, but why society as a whole (ie women and men who are not abusers but stand by and do nothing) condones and supports it.

I know that Lundy Bancroft has something to say on the matter, I will find the quote in a minute.

www.zimbio.com/Domestic+Violence+Truths/articles/54/Traumatic+Bonding+Stockholm+Syndrome

Here's a link but there is loads of stuff on the internet explaining Trauma Bonding.

it's like saying the answer to pedophilia is for each individual child to report and not put up with it and why on earth do they not tell someone etc. we don't say that - we say we have to monitor these people once identified and protect future potential victims from them.

men who are habitually abusive and violent towards women need dealing with. it's a pattern of behaviour that repeats and leaves a string of victims behind them at great cost to society.

"I know that on a feminism thread, the instinct is to defend the women's behaviour, but perhaps some women's behaviour is indefensible in relation to their children. Or does is that too uncomfortable to contemplate?"

But still the person who is actually perpetrating the abuse is the real bad guy, surely?

There was a thread on here the other day complaining about a short sentence a man had received for something he had done to a child. Someone asked the question, how was the mother involved with him, why did she leave her child with him? The article said nothing about the mother being implicated, or there being any question about her knowing, or that she had been charged or anything. And the man had done appalling things. But still the question was there - why did the mother let this happen. It shows a real attitude that as SAF says women are held to higher standards of behaviour than men, and a rather scary idea of what men are like. That the question why did he do it, is not even worth asking.

normally if we want to stop a behaviour we look at things like education, strong sanctions as deterrant and punishment, systems of monitoring etc etc not well why do the victims put up with it.

it's false economy anyway because one woman gets rid of him, he finds another woman and on and on. stopping men is what will stop this not a succession of ten women having to go through and get him out all over again.

ithaka
The OP is not about women specifically but the thread has turned into a discussion as to why women do this because in the main it is men who do the abuse.

I suggested Stockholm Syndrome, specifically with regard to domestic violence, and you should read about it because it would help explain why people stay with the abuser to the detriment of themselves and their children.

I knew a woman, with eight children, who managed to escape an abusive bastard. He tracked her down and killed her (stabbed in a frenzied attack) in front of the children. They were then fostered out and separated as a family.

That was many years ago and still that behaviour continues. Berating women for the abusive they suffer from men doesn't help the situation.

ultimately though the real question is why do men in our culture in the modern day still feel justified in beating and abusing women in their own homes and how do we change that.

i think several of us have already said there are women who are cruel to their children, selfish etc. this isn't about blind defense of women. it's about how women are seen as more encountable for their children's abuse than the very person perpetrating it and it's fair to say that that is because we are conditioned to have higher expectations of women, especially mothers.

ithaka it may be uncomfortable but if your dad didn't do everything he could to get custody of you after that then he was just as culpable as your mum in standing by and letting it happen.

i think we've looked at quite a lot of reasons why a woman may be able to do this and ways to help women who are willing out of these situations. we've also acknowledged that those who will not leave despite support, housing, protection and warnings need to have children removed from the home.

Why do women stay with bastards?

Because they are scared, stupid, dependent, selfish, timid, a million reasons. I'm not sure what thinking about that achieves though?

I think I'm just going to return to real life and continue to deal with the fall-out, and remain bewildered, without an answer to the OP's question.

I think you are unlikely to be able to have that debate on this feminist forum with much success or actual discussion, ithaka.
Although I also think it is a reasonable and valid question to ask.

It is interesting to reflect on why this man is a bastard and there could be any number of reasons, but for me that is not the most pertinent question.

The OP is about why people, women sepcifically, marry, support and enable bastards and I find that an interesting issue and one that is seldom debated.

I know that on a feminism thread, the instinct is to defend the women's behaviour, but perhaps some women's behaviour is indefensible in relation to their children. Or does is that too uncomfortable to contemplate?

I agree with both of those posts saf.

Shows hoe deeply ingrained these ideas are that it didn't occur to me to ask where Ithaka's father was in all of this. Of course he may have moved heaven and earth but the point is people just don't imagine that men will step up when it comes to children, that's why that question is so rarely asked.

i think it is the most pertinent question and it's interesting that it isn't the one focussed on. it suggest low expectations of men's behaviour and no sense of accountability for their own behaviour and higher expectations of women who must be accountable.

but did your father swoop in and rescue you? did he go to court and fight for custody of you? did he go and see this man and talk to him about his treatment of you? did he communicate with your mother about it? etc etc.

Surely the more pertinent question is, why is this man such a total bastard?

ithaka I am not talking about your personal situation but about situations in general.

It is quite normal for men to feel feelings of love and protection towards children, as many women do. Whether its their own children, their step-children, or just a random child in the street who is about to run into the road. IYSWIM.

That is my pint - it is shocking when parents don't protct their children - mothers and fathers. I was taking from the OP that she meant in relationships when the mother's new boyfriend is vile to her children, why does she let that happen? Why do some women put their new man ahead of theit children?

I have no personal experience of step-families but imagine it is quite normal to feel love and protection towards your step-children?

The way the people who are actually inflicting the abuse are being written out of the conversation bothers me.

Yes, but he is not our father. Our father is lovely. He has no control over his the man his ex wife marries.

ithaka but surely fathers have similar instinctive feelings of protection towards their children?