How can a parent let their child be beaten by an OH

StickAForkInMeImDone Then they are just selfish, to put their happiness over their children's. Like my brother. Who is on his 4th girlfriend/fiancée in a yr.

Thumbwitch my friend (a different one) allowed her H back after 4 weeks. She had had to call the police on him 3 times and he had beaten her, but the "kids missed him and she loved him".
My mum kicked my dad out for 4 days after he tipped boiling water over her, she let him back home.
I think the thought of going through the separation and all it entails (plus the fact the women feel to blame) means it is easier to go back to what they know.
Still don't understand why women stay with men who show their behaviour at the beginning of the relationship though

molly - or they leave but then they go back - what IS that all about? :(

HPTU my mum was like the woman you worked with. No-one would have believed what he was capable of. She hid it well.

The thing is they go for women that display a certain type of weakness/vulnerability in the first place and then they just play on that. I can sort of understand that as some people are needy and will put up witha lot, and it makes them very easy to manipulate and the man senses that whn he originally gets with her. Unfortunately these types of men often already sense these things in women that are already mothers.

However I really do struggle with that when there are children involved that have been threatened with hammers, covered in bruises, sexually abused, etc. With the physical abuse the mum has often seen it with her own eyes and talked bout that but still wouldnt leave for whatever reason, even after offers of being moved away, lots of support, free childcare, help with jobs, could live in mother/baby unit/supported living etc. I think with some people they just 'love' the abuser more than the child/ren.

HPTU My SIL stayed with my DB for similar reasons your DB stayed with his partner.

Re my SIL, no I didn't know all the intricacies, but I knew a lot, staying with them 4/5 days a week. I also knew what my DB told me himself how he felt about his step children (and yes I did call him on it) and what DIL told me, in her words just before they married "I know he doesn't like my DC, but I love him and they won't be at home forever"

With my friend, she told me what her OH did to make her DC do what he said. I told her it wasn't right and her response was that it was for the greater good and maybe they would learn to behave. (they were normal DC, didn't need to be held by their necks with their feet off the floor to remind them to take a glass out of the lounge). Friend's OH behaved like this from the beginning.

One of the hardest points for me it when I first realise what I'm seeing or hearing. The tidal wave of incandescent rage that floods me is hard to contain, to keep your voice steady and even and your manner light and gentle and calm when all I want at that moment is to disembowel and dismember that person that caused the harm.

It is so very visceral, the need to protect. Even when they aren't my children.

he convinced her that no one would believe her

StickAForkInMeImDone

I was answering the OP who (it reads here) seems to think that all relationships are devoid of all & any type of abuse.

My brother stayed with a woman who called his (older/left home, lives with his ex) children skanks & whores & bitches. Why did he stay? because he was scared of being alone. For some reason he didn't see what she did as a problem. In his case, he was just stupid. But it isn't always like that, is it?

Your SIL & friend, did you know ALL the intricacies of their relationships? I worked with a women for 3yrs & she was badly abused/beaten by her partner. NO ONE knew, he was 'clever' only hit her where it wouldn't show. She didn't tell anyone because all her family/friends loved him so much & he convinced her that no one would. One time she was so badly hurt she took time off work. Another girl at work saw her in town & she was black & blue. She said her & her partner were beaten up. I left that place of work & heard that she left him after he kissed another girl. The years of beating etc, did nothing for her, a kiss was all it took!

I have seen those kind of injuries to dustin and Im only a nursery worker. Some women are weak and put up with it, they often even after all that chose the man over the child and lose custody of the child. They often defend the man even after they have been caught out, even after sexual abuse. I have seen some awful cases and been involved in the cp and removal of them from the family home.

The problem with your argument as a response to the OP, Stewie, is that it presumes that all women who stand by while their children are beaten are victims.

It's only victim blaming if you assume that women whose children are hit are victims by definition.

That's the circular logic I was talking about earlier - you are presuming abuse as the only possible explanation for women who don't help their abused children, and then using the abuse you have presumed as the reason they do nothing.

Is it really beyond the bounds of possibility that as well as abused women paralysed by fear and trauma, there are also other women who don't act for different reasons?

Sometimes there are traumatised victims who are doing their best, but sometimes there are women who buy so utterly into the idea that it is wrong to split up a family that they think a violent father is better than a "broken family", other times there are women so enamoured of a new man that they overlook how he is with their children.

And, and, and...

There is no one answer to why this happens, and an argument that all women who stay are too afraid to leave is as knee-jerk and simplistic as one that thinks any woman would just walk at the first sign of violence.

HPTU I get what you are saying, but my (admittedly only 2) examples weren't from women who had been ground down after years. They made the choice right at the beginning.

Stick. I agree that it is hugely shocking how anyone can do that to their child, maybe when we see instances like this we need to be the children's voice and call in outside help. If the children's own mother won't help, maybe the other adults round the children should.

Unfortunately as with many things, there is not a one solution fits all. Which includes demonising those who don't seek help.

Haven't read the whole thread. My mother did not leave my father. She stayed and watched him abuse me for years. I left them eventually, but she is still with him. She may have been traumatised by his abuse towards her before he started on me. But she is an inherently weak person. That's why she didn't leave.

I don't think it's up to society to make it easier for women to leave. It wouldn't have made any difference with my mother. She is and was simply a weak, cowardly unfit mother.

Thumbwitch It is so complicated isn't it?
The 2 women I have posted about, well, they both put their need for a relationship (whole other thread) over and above their children. But how sad that their self esteem was so wrapped up in being in a relationship they glossed over how their DC were being treated. And they glossed over it right from the start.
I have to admit, I haven't been in an abusive relationship, but I grew up in an abusive house so I tend to come at these things from the childs perspective.

JugsyMalone

YOU are terrible naive if you think it is that easy in all relationships. It is normally years & years of soul destroying/controlling/gas lighting/beating etc. The woman is SO worn down that she lacks the confidence, the strength, the know how to leave.

It's easy to say that you will leave if you/your kids are hit/beaten when in a perfectly normal (define normal yourself) relationship. Myself, yes I would leave dh is he did hurt our girls, or myself, but that is easy to say because he doesn't spend him time belittling me, terrorising me & destroying who I am. I can see his behaviour for what it would be, because I haven't been programmed to think of it as acceptable.

maresedotes - can you link to that please?

I am torn over this, because I believe there are women who are like Stickafork has described; women who, on being told by their child that they are being abused by the partner (father or no) either refuse to believe them or blame them - and they may not have any violence ishoos with the partner themselves (they might) - but they refuse to dissolve their partnership to potentially protect their child. No I don't know anyone personally in this situation and perhaps I have been led astray by the various stories I've seen in the media over the years, but there are women who prioritise their partner over their children (even on MN).

However, I also understand that women in a DV situation do have altered perceptions and may get to a point where they don't know which way is up, so making any strong decisions is very hard for them - but still, and I know I'm ignorant about this, I just don't see how they can normalise seeing their child be damaged so badly, to the point of death. How, how is it that it doesn't snap them into action, to protect their baby?

Yes I am enormously grateful and lucky that I don't know how this happens, and I'm really sorry if I've offended anyone - but it really doesn't compute with me how they let it happen. :(

ifeelloved I am not talking about women who have been ground down after years.
My 2 examples were of women who decided after a couple of weeks that they would persue the relationship knowing that their prospective OH weren't very nice to their DC. They did make that choice, they admitted it. Then they were ground which made it harder for them to leave.

I really can't believe some of the comments on here. Absolutely disgusting.

If my dh raised a hand to me let alone our children he would be out of here.

However I haven't been ground down so much that I don't know which way is up.

If course children should be protected but nice how once again the blame is placed on the woman.

In an ideal world there would be no dv, it isn't an ideal world though and abuse does happen, we as a society need to help woman (and men) in this situation get out safely not demonise them for not seeking help

Is it the case then that women in abusive relationships have no free will?

That they cannot be held responsible for anything they do, or allow to be done, because of the abuse?

How can someone tell when an abuse victim has crossed over to a state of a complete inability to make free choices, or be held responsible. Is it a recognised mental health problem that can be diagnosed?

If not, should it be? Is it something that is not treated seriously enough because it affects vulnerable women, mostly?

The comparison to PTSD and men returning from WWI is interesting, because it is often used to give a sense of the importance of women's trauma, e.g. childbirth trauma - so easy to be written off as just something women go through, compared to men coming home from war to make it "important".

Sometimes there does seem to be a rather circular argument made on this subject that goes something like:

Some abused women are too afraid to protect their children
This woman didn't protect her children
Therefore she must have been afraid
Therefore she must have been abused

I'm struggling to know how to word this, so please forgive me if it comes out wrong.
I know of 2 women who have allowed the treatment of their DC to come a very big second to their own relationship.
First one was my SIL. She knew my DB disliked her DC. She married him anyway. She knew (whilst he didn't physically abuse them) the way he treated them was disgraceful and she accepted it. She told me she accepted it.
Second one was a friend whose DP manhandled her DC (from the word go) He didn't touch friend, and she acknowledged that he shouldn't treat them the way he did but she loved him and wanted to be with him and he wasn't "that bad" with them, they needed the discipline after all.
I grew up in a DV house, my mum was beaten, but no way on earth would she have allowed him to touch us. (she didn't quite "get" that the situation we were in was as almost as bad as any physical abuse - different era)
I hate to say it, but there are some women who place being with a man (however bad) above their DC.

Fuzzy, that's often why the cycle repeats. If that is your normality, it is frequently what you recreate as an adult in your own relationships.

Tip of the iceberg Thing, I didn't mention the sexual and emotional abuse indicators and evidence that I've seen. I've been teaching a while, in affluent and impoverished areas and seen an enormous range of damage pass before me and my colleagues. I'm not being dismissive of the adults who are victims, or blaming them.
I just find it the stuff of nightmares when I witness the harm done to the children and the difficulty of the fight to protect them, and the obstacles and conditions, the shifting priorities placed in the way of keeping them safe.

Can I hijack the thread slightly and point you all to a campaign I posted about on Wednesday - Speak Up, Save a Life (I'll bump it now) that has been started with Refuge. They need 100,000 so that DV can be debated in the House of Commons.