Bras

Actually WRT to high heels, for some women it's more comfortable to wear heels than flat shoes. This may be because they have worn heels for so many years that their Achilles tendons have shortened so it's Their Own Fault, but it would still be a bit unreasonable to expect them to give up their heels and endure discomfort just to get a Good Feminist cookie. I do think that 'I like wearing [whatever]' is a valid reason to do so; it only becomes unfeminist when you nag and whine at other women to make the same choice as you when they are not you and may have all sorts of reasons for wearing different things.

SDTG It seems you had a problem with my comment earlier. "I like x :( End of discussion!" comments are very common when someone tries to discuss a subject from a feminist perspective- like something related to beauty practices - and it seems like comments like that are kind of meant to shut up discussion. Kind of I like it, so it's no prob, god those feminists complain about everything! If a topic named "Do you like/wear bras" was posted in Chat then it would be a good response to just write if you wear them or not. But OP posted it in Fem discussion, so she probably wanted some thoughts from a feminist perspective.

I'm not demanding perfection of commenters here, I'm shit at typing in english anyway. :)

I wouldn't compare bras to wearing heels. Except women with small perky breasts, I think most of us agree that wearing a supportive bra is significantly more comfortable than not wearing one.

Bras are a feminist issue though. Remember this? www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2010/06/17/somalis_forced_to_forego_soccerand_bras.html

I'm a G cup, and I wear an underwired bra all the time, including in bed. I am much more comfy in a bra than without. My sports bras are a mix of soft and wired but the most effective ones are like armour and not comfy to wear except for sports.

I wore soft feeding bras for about 18 months and they were comfortable but I look better in wired. Yes they are better uplifted and forward facing. Clothes look better over them and I look slimmer. DH couldn't care less it is my own body image. I also hate nipples showing through my clothes. Ridiculous I suppose but I do.

If anyone made soft crop tops in bigger sizes I might wear them at home. I am definitely more comfortable in a bra but I suppose the type of bra I wear is because of what society says breasts should look like.

Oh god I am pompous before I've had my first coffee. Sorry.

Ooops - pressed post too soon - I absolutely agree that it is wrong for anyone to feel that they have to wear a bra, in order to conform with society, when it does nothing for them personally (either by offering practical support or being something pretty with which they enjoy wearing). I don't go round looking for women who aren't wearing a bra and judging them, and I would hope that most other people don't either.

I do think that sometimes people put pressure on themselves, and judge themselves far more harshly than the world actually does. For example, I didn't manage to successfully breastfeed my dses past 2 or 3 months, and I felt a total failure for this. Most of my friends breastfed with no problems (or no problems apparent to me, at least), and I compared myself to them and judged myself very harshly - which contributed to PND.

I do wonder whether this is, in part at least, a similar issue. Whether women have taken on board the belief that they must wear a bra, and so, like you, they do so, even though it makes them uncomfortable or resentful, but actually the vast majority of society wouldn't even notice if they didn't wear a bra, or wouldn't care that much either way. Of course, the question of why women feel they need to wear a bra is a much deeper one, and one I am not qualified to examine - though I deplore it.

No apology needed, Plenty - I clearly wasn't clear enough. All I was objecting to was some people's contributions being dismissed with the implication that they weren't sufficiently serious/well thought-out/feminist.

SDTG - I haven't delved too deeply into the ideology of wearing/not wearing a bra - I'm interested in learning a bit more here on this thread. I'm just starting from the point that I wear a bra because I feel I have to and I resent that.

The impression I got from your previous post was that you thought this was a trivial subject to discuss at all - apologies if that is not what you meant.

Molasses I do like wearing a bra, it means my body is more comfortable. If I don't wear a bra whilst out and doing things by the end of the day by boobs ache I also like using modern sanitary protection instead of using rags in my underwear so I can (mostly) go about my usual day to day life without interference.

Even choosing underwear that "smooths out" my breasts/disguises nipples is not an issue in my mind. Men also choose clothes that don't show body "lumpiness" as well as being practical and comfortable.

Possibly wonderbras (do they still exist?) and similar are a feminist issue, but supportive bras are not. That said, I do think that the current style of balonette (?) bras which don't keep breasts in place, are more uncomfortable than braless and just make them look more "appealing" are a problem.

Straps

I conform to the wearing of bras in public, must confess I frequently don't bother at home when it's warm.
Post 40 I think DD2 would notice if I collect her from school without ( has been known when I was younger.)
I'm only a B cup (years of BF have made no difference, I've never properly filled a C even when PG).
Except for convention I wouldn't wear one, I have narrow shoulders the stapes fall off.

onlyaninja, yes, gutted that in the last book Ayla accidentally invents patriarchy.

Plentyofpubegardens - am I only allowed to debate serious issues on mumsnet then? When was that decided, and why wasn't I notified?

I was objecting to the implication that, in order to have an opinion in the Feminist section, you have to have delved deep into the ideology of whatever is being discussed, and that somehow, if you haven't done so, you shouldn't post here as your opinion is worthless. I was trying to make the point that people make decisions in their lives for serious, well thought out reasons and for simple, banal ones, and that I, for one, don't have the time or head-space to have an inner debate on the role of the patriarchy in determining women's underwear before I strap on a bra each morning. I do it because I prefer the way my boobs feel if they are in a bra, and because I don't like the way I look in my clothes if my boobs are round my waist (which believe me, they would be without the bra). So basically, I wear a bra because I like it - and that is a perfectly valid contribution to the debate - because it is an honest one. I'm sorry if it isn't sufficiently feminist or deep for some in this section.

I'm sure I have seen some sort of advertising along those lines. And there's the old joke about the shy young man advised by his mate that he would pull more burds if he put a potato in his swimming trunks.
He tried it with limited success, so his mate offered to watch and advise...

No no no Timmy, you put it in the front of your pants, not the back.

Don't forget, there are some activities for which men have to strap their willies up! And there are men who wear boxer shorts and men who find them uncomfortable and like to have their tackle restrained by more fitted underwear...

I do a lot of physical work, & sport & often wear a sports bra. I'm a 36c ( bigger at present as breast feeding) I have always hated my bossom I was really upset when it grew @ puberty. I like them to be strapped firmly in place with no insubordinance.
I also like nice bras, but I don't want the buggers to move, it feels horrible.

Tunip, it might suggest that female morris dancers invented bras?

STDG - sorry you're going through all that but really, if it's that trivial, you didn't have to click on the thread, read it and comment. What were you expecting from a thread in feminism titled 'bras'?

I wear bras because I feel I have to and I resent it. I don't think I'm alone and I think it's valuable to have a thread to discuss it from a feminist perspective.

SGB - glad you wear one for morris dancing - you could 'ave someone's eye out!

Men might not morally have to hide their nipples but FFS some of them should keep their bloody tops on in the summer.

oh but SolidGoldBrass, surely that just proves ladies shouldn't do Morris dancing?

er yes, I know Sonicrainboom!