Working mum. SAHDad. Support?

I think gaelic has a point. Men who buck the patriarchy often fall foul of the same penalties that affect women who step out of their traditional role. Among male single parents, for example, the problems faced by fathers are very similar to those faced by mothers, though arguably they have a more admired public presence than single mothers who are, of course, the scourge of the earth in some circles.

sunshineandbooks - I think it totally depends on the man's character. If they're comfortable with P&T groups, school gate chatter, etc. then they are probably mothered and swamped with support. But if, like many men and my DH, they are shy, reserved and uncomfortable in solely female company then they can be totally isolated and lonely - especially if they live in an area where SAHDs are as rare as hen's teeth.

I've never met a SAHD. I would love to have some experience of them so that I could see for myself what the predominant situation is: whether they are swamped with support from mothers, or ostracised and viewed with suspicion, or whether it's roughly 50/50.

If I ever became involved with anyone again, I would love to have a SAHD type (as opposed to the 'cock-lodger'). I would love my children to have the benefit of a relationship with another adult whose concern for their welfare and happiness rivalled my own, as well as having the security of knowing that I could pursue a career knowing for a fact that my children were loved and well-cared for.

I am always surprised and saddened by the fact that less respect is given to the fact that when it works well, the working partner/SAHP model actually works brilliantly. The main problem with it is the lack of value society places on the role of primary carer and often a lack of appreciation from the working parent, when the truth is both are equally dependent on the other. I will admit to not having seen it this way before I became a single parent, so maybe that's why - maybe unless you are blessed with an ability to see all sides you have to experience it before you have a true appreciation of the bigger picture.

Bling the only thing you need to focus on is whether your DC are being well-cared for by their father and you are happy focussing on your career. If the answers to those two questions are yes, then nothing else matters. You may feel odd because it's culturally unusual, but that doesn't mean it is odd. Why should your sex influence your ability to parent or work? You will undoubtedly experience some attitudes, but that's their problem not yours.

Well obviously others disagree, but I still think that emotionally - for a man who is not in the right place emotionally - it is one hell of a difficult thing to do. For a man who is used to being the breadwinner and to having some control over his life to suddenly find himself in that position. Knowing he would rather be at work, knowing his wife would rather be at home, feeling that everyone thinks he's a lazy arse, ill and clinically depressed. OK I'm talking about my DH, who is trapped at home unable to go anywhere or do anything with the children because we have no spare cash after bills, spending his whole life playing taxi to me and the children because he have only one car and live in the middle of nowhere - I guess probably colours my opinions a wee bit.

Hmmmm...

I'm a F/T WOHM. My children are both little - baby and toddler. I also have an evening job and am doing a P/T PhD. It means DH's SAHD role is much harder than my SAHM used to be, but also that my life is harder. Life is just hard, isn't it. I'd never really thought about working out which was hardest.

It's not the "hardest possible role there is". You get praised for doing what millions of women do all the time, and you shouldn't.

Single parents undoubtedly have it harder.

You do need a fair amount of self-confidence, though, I will admit, and I bet it's hard if you don't have that.

It is the hardest possible role for precisely the reasons highlighted in your post. They are totally going against the tide of society and yet they are thought to be privileged to be in the position. In some ways they are of course, but then I know my time at work is 10 times easier than DH's role at home. And my DH can't be the only SAHD whose been forced into that position through necessity, and is depressed and disempowered as a result.

SAHMs have shedloads of support from other SAHMs. Ditto to WOHMs to a point (although I meet relatively few F/T WOHMs). SAHDs get nothing except people asking them when they're going to get a job (IME anyway).

I think life in our family would be vastly easier if we both worked f/t - financially and emotionally. I don't agree families with two f/t working parents have it harder than SAHDs at all.

Gaelicsheep, I don't agree that it's the hardest role. What 'support' do you think they should have? I didn't have 'support' when I was a SAHM, and I don't have 'support' as a WOHM. DH didn't have 'support' as a working dad either. I do think people are really over thinking this.

I'm not saying it isn't hard, by the way- of course it has its problems. But it certainly isn't the 'hardest role there is'! What about single parents (either sex) without any support? What about parents who both work long hours through necessity and struggle to spend any quality time as a family? There are lots of more difficult situations than simply staying at home looking after your kids.

Being a SAHD is really and truly the hardest possible role there is. Some men do it out of choice, they are naturally the nurturing type and they're married to a career woman - fine, good on them, they can probably look afte themselves. But others - most perhaps - are doing it for reasons of practicality. Perhaps their job wasn't compatible with family life or they were made redundant. There is NO support for men in that position. None.

Think of the stock response given by almost everyone who finds out a man stays at home with his kids. "Do you work?". Who says that to a SAHM really? A SAHD can feel emasculated because he isn't bringing home the bacon. the WOHM feels de-motherised (to coin a phrase - like it!) and feels pulled in every direction. It can be truly crap and nobody understands who hasn't been there themselves.

For me, I felt "de-motherised" for the first 4 years. Only when I took maternity leave for DD2 did I start to feel like a proper mum, and finally now I think I've found the right balance and some kind of comfort in my roles. DH on the other hand still struggles every day, and yet we really have no choice.

I'm in the same boat, and was going to post a question for people in these circumstances. This seems a good place to post that question!

So, do you feel de-motherified? I'm no longer ParentInCharge. I'm better at work, DH loves being with the kids, I do miss them and am knackered, but I do a little bit resent not being the one to make important decisions. I need to let it go, I know.

That should have been 'Lives' not "ives, obviously.

DW feels a lot of guilt about missing things, especially as she has to work v long hours at work.

My daughter's just started at preschool and another little girl has announced that they are friends.

We've now been invited to a play date at her house: with the father on a Wednesday afternoon, with the mother on a Thursday afternoon, or with the nanny on a Friday afternoon.

Which one should I pick?

I am in the same position as you, and I think you are massively overthinking it. My DH has been a SAHD for 2 years now and has found it to be better than he expected. He has met other dads on the school run in the same position- I think a lot depends on the area you live in. Our area isn't exactly deprived, but it is very working class and most familes 'get by' however they can- if this means a 'role reversal' then that's what they do...so we're not alone.

Slight difference we have is that DH does work part time in the evenings, so the thing I find hardest is the lack of time all together- plus the fact that as I come in, he goes out and I'm on 'child duty' immediately following a hard day's work.

For this, my best source of support and understanding is my grandmother- she and my grandad had the same situation the other way around in the sixties. So despite living in different eras, she 'gets' the relentless treadmill feeling, the guilt, (she 'should' have been at home instead of leaving her 'poor DH' to do bath and bedtime) and the constant wondering whether you're doing the right thing. So I console myself with the fact that despite what we see in the media, women have done this for many, many years, and their children have grown up happy.

If you're into history at all, I recommend a book called 'They Worked all Their "ives' by Carl Chinn. Fascinating look at how the working mother is actually much less of a new idea among the working classes than you'd think.

Sorry for the long post- but basically- if you're doing the best thing for your family right now then chill. It'll all be OK in the end.

(Oh, and if it's any consolation I'm a teacher and can't do assemblies/nativities EVER as they are obviously during term time.)

I DO agree that women of feminist persuasion want to see men doing their bit, yet ultimately are highly suspicious of the ones that do....This very thread is from someone who feels her dh can't do the same job as her, not really... IT is not not HIM posting about where he can meet like minded souls.....

Well I never had a raving social life when on ML, MoreBeta - but that does sound very hard going in the long term...

Bling have you been doing this SAHD/WOHM for very long. It will settle down. You need to let go and let DH get on with his job of being SAHD. You can't micromanage looking after a child and work in the City. He likely feels a bit isolated though. He could go on MN if he needs advice/help/chat?

Porto - well yes and no. There is one SAHD/WAHD who lives near me but I've only known him 6 months and he always works during the day when DCs are out. He is the only RL SAHD I have ever met. Coffee mornings, or just chatting at the school gate with SAHMs not easy. There is a barrier - you know those comments on MN you see 'why do men come on MN isn't it a bit weird?' well the suspicious looks happen in RL too. I have loked for Dad support groups on the web. There are a few Dad forums but no one ever posts on them - have you seen Dadsnet on MN?

Luckily DW is at home quite a lot, we have mutual friends we see at weekend, I have old work friends who I see and I work over the internet - but if I was home alone without any work I would be very isolated.

I feel lucky and not complaining - just saying its a bit different being SAHD from being SAHM.

I do think that if you work and "outsource" childcare, be that mum, dad, Grandma, CM, local nursery, you have be happy upfront about what the "rules" are and then get on with it. It is not FAIR to go off and do something else all day then complain about the nitty gritty. You need to get over it (as long as DH is doing a sufficient job) and just enjoy coming home to your ds. You need to agree expectations as to what gets done/not done in the house and what jobs you should be doing. The fact that you are female and the main carer is male shouldn't enter into it. The same rules shoud apply.

We are pretty much in the same situation. I find the hardest thing is how differently WE each handle the role. Sometimes DH will do things in a different way from me and I will worry - his priorities are some different from what mine were when I was at home and I find myself making "helpful" suggestions which make him (understandably) annoyed.

I also find that I feel more pressure than I think he did about missing assemblies and so on. I think he was better able to accept that as the breadwinner he couldn't always be there but I feel terrible I miss something like that and I think other women don't help - as a working Mum I feel judged by other mothers.

On the flipside I think we both know how it feels in the other persons shoes. He never complains that dinner is cold if I have been held up and I don't expect to walk in and have a shower/cuppa rather than pitch in with the kids, things that we will both admit to having done when the roles were reversed - I think all couples should swap roles for a while for this reason alone 0 our marriage feels stronger as a result of knowing we are both capable of earning the money and both capable of being the main carer as we have both successfully done both roles. It FEELS equal and for every dig, we get 3 or 4 positive comments.

MoreBeta, but did you not put yourself "Out There"? I didn't fit in a nice tidy box when I moved to Belgium - was working so couldn't do toddler group, locals didn't mix outside of work. Felt between a rock and a hard place - I never thought it would be so hard. It takes effort. If what you need isn't there, then invent it!

It worked out well for us too and I am not complaining either.

I am in the same situation. Are there any issues in particular? No Matter how much it should be the same for a sahd as a sahm it is not. And for both it can be difficult, it has certainly not been straightforward for us but ultimately has worked out well.

BlingLoving - I am a SAHD with a part time working wife. I don't quite understand what you post is about?

By the way DH will not find thousands of blogs, or any SAHMs offering support or any other men who are SAHD. Ten years and counting for me. None of those things happen. Why do you think I come on MN?