women and muscularity

BTW... Muscularity has been deemed attractive in women for quite some time. If you look at films from the seventies and earlier -something like James Bond where you get a fair smattering of women in bikinis - the bodies are slim but remarkably flabby. Today's models are far more muscular and toned than their predecessors and you've got all kinds of sportwomen like Jessica Ennis regular appearing in adverts etc.

I find both sexes unattractive if they are really muscled.

"To be honest, I'm finding this thread a bit creepy and Aryan idealish"

But the point of the thread isn't whether it is essential to be muscular, it's a discussion of whether people find muscular women unattractive and why.

whoops - hadn't rtft.

muscles good in general.

wouldn't personally go to gym or sculpt self. But if people want to, why not?

I have a close friend who is a female natural bodybuilder (doesn't use drugs or steroids) who has done fantastically well in competitions this year. She says she has never felt more powerful and attractive, though this was a side effect, not the aim. Prior to this she has accomplished major goals in running, swimming etc - it's all about setting and beating goals for her, not about appearance.

The thing that gets me is that women's exercise goals ALWAYS seem to be defined by the end result of how you will look, not what you will be able to DO. I am training at the moment to build strength and stamina - not because I want to be a different shape, but because I want to be stronger and go further! But where are the female role models advocating training for physical ability gains? There are deafening voices when it comes to cajoling women to exercise to lose weight/"tone up" etc. One of the reasons I was so angry about no Sportswoman of the year was because that would have been ONE opportunity to celebrate female physical achievement, not appearance. I don't have high hopes for the Olympics in this regard.

muscles good

To be honest, I'm finding this thread a bit creepy and Aryan idealish. Who cares what muscle tone other people have? Is somebody going to come around and start measuring us with callipers?

As long as people are fit enough not to drop down dead from a heart attack at 50, I don't see why it should be of any interest other than to the person actually going to the gym who may enjoy it as a hobby in the same way people enjoy nail art.

I don't think hunter gatherers do look very muscular. They spend far fewer hours working than agriculturalists do.

If people want to look a certain way, that is up to them. But I don't think it is actually any different from a feminist perspective to putting on makeup or having a time consuming hair style.

If you want a hunter gatherer level of fitness, walk a dog for two hours a day and then look after your children, because that is pretty much all the exercise they do. Unlike farming, hunter gathering is not labour intensive.

There is nothing unnatural or difficult to attain about a healthily muscled body.

Mostly I see people with their clothes, male or female, on so can't judge whether they are muscular or not. Don't think there's a problem with 'strength' for either gender... too simplistic to say 'women must be weak-looking' sorry..... but that unnatural bulking up, swollen, vein-popping thing people do for body-building competitions just looks wrong outside of a cattle-market. The Michelin Man effect.

I don't find muscular bodies attractive on anybody, male or female. I have never weight trained in my life; it doesn't stop me from lifting heavy furniture or doing any other day to day physical tasks that most people have to do. Part of my work is also very physical for some of the year.

I just think this is another way of trying to mould women's bodies, because women's bodies constantly have to be representing something.

I am as strong a person as I need to be to get through life's tasks. I don't see what the appeal is of wasting time in a gym to get a certain appearance or change people's perceptions of you.

I'm not sure that swapping one prescribed body image (which requires hard work and is not attainable 'naturally')for another is a good thing...

Strong is good. Can't stand women who stand around feebly waiting for a bloke to lift anything heavier than a brick.

Treasure your muscles - I was always fit and strong. The one thing I hate as I have got older and have arthritis in my knees and fingers (not bad but enough to restrict range of movement and give some pain) is diminution in physical strength, no matter how fit I am or how much training I do. However, without years of training decrepitude would likely have set in much earlier

So flex those muscles, enjoy being strong... you lose it soon enough.

Read thread now, good thread

The boxing thing is telling isn't it. Women are allowed to box now, but they must wear a skirt while doing so. Just in case. Just in case of what, I don't know. Just in case viewers don't understand that they are to look out for eye candy as well as boxing skills? Just in case some people at first glance don't notice they are women? Because it's fun to have short skirts flying up and down? Who can say...

But surely in the real world, i.e. outside of the media pages, strong, athletic women are seen as attractive by everyone?

Interesting link, Sardine. What next, compulsory small pants underneath?

As a digression, I actually saw Prince Naseem box in his heyday and he was wearing a leopard-print skirt thing. That was about his flamboyance and his choice as a money-drawing elite sportsman, I presumed.

I find it hard to distinguish Jodie Marsh from her tattoo-work.

Her body is certainly a project that is pulling away from the former 'glamour' construct.

But it's still very much a public project.

not read thread but wanted to quickly post this about olympics and female boxers

may have to wear skirts to distinguish them from men

Jodie Marsh, OP.

I think it's interesting where cultural aesthetic preference becomes politically promoted ideal, e.g. ancient Athenian torso-defining body armour or Soviet poster imagery. There are twists and turns of gender identity that can be quite surprising to some modern eyes.

I think if women can deconstruct, they can be women.

I am quite strong physically and like it.