HARROGATE

You can't get sexual gratification at a venue, they would be shut if they offered that. And I have never gone home and played with myself. So Nyac I dont get sexual gratification. I do find the experience erotic but then seeing some ballets can be as exciting. And Nyac no they are not things, they are people and if you want to help them you should be campaigning to protect them in the workplace in terms of standardised regulations.

And I know Linden as I had a friend who ran a strip bar and over the years I have met maybe 1000 dancers. I can safely say I haven't met one who didn't want to do it. And if a dancer tried any sort of provision of sexual service she would have been fired and no venue manager would run the risk of having their business closed. The whole point is lap dance is a name with no meaning as the dancer performs 3 ft away, not sure how you can have any sort of sexual contact over 3 feet.

How do you really know that they are willing to provide it? Not coerced? Or do you simply assume because they are doing it they are doing it willingly? Are you willing to accept that paying for a lap dance is a sexual service ?

Just because you haven't been actually physically violent doens't mean that paying to sexually exploit women is OK. It's not. You should stop.

Also you getting enjoyment from what you do is a bit of a euphemism. Men paying to see women strip for them, or to lapdance for them, is so they can wank to the experience, either during or afterwards.

You talk about women as if they are things Tony. It's very unpleasant.

Entitlement is an interesting comment. The only thing I am entitled to is breathing. I see it as a form of entertainment, I pay for that entertainment but only because the dancer is willing to provide it. They have chosen to work at a venue and I get enjoyment from the beauty of the female form. Most men, if they are honest, enjoy looking at women. If men did not find women attractive the world of Mumsnet would be very empty. I enjoy seeing women dance naked or clothed. I enjoy art with people in and most art features women. I have never hit a woman and been violent. I have never felt the urge to force myself on someone and do not condone any act of violence. It is interesting as been in contact with a male stripper who has work joint venues and he has far more issues than any female dancer.

Tony - why do you think it is ok to pay a woman to remove her underwear in front of you and dance and why do you feel you are entitled to do this?

Krit you may be right so be intersting when the figures come out to see exactly where they have been spending and where their money has come from. I am not into company law as I have only been managing director of one ltd company and it was definately for profit.

Tunip I don't have a strip bar in easy distance of me, wish I did as they are great for having a good night out. However judge me as you wish, it gives me a good laugh.

Well . . .

I think we know why Tony likes having the sex trade on his high street.

Tony, you are totally wrong in your first statement. Many not-for-profit organisations are Companies Limited by Guarantee because you need to have a legal status in order to do things like employ staff, enter into contracts, have a bank account and apply for funding. Some are also registered charities and there are also Charitable Incorporated Organisations (CIOs or SCIOs in Scotland) - a specific form of incorporation that only recently became available so organisations need not have dual company and charity registration.

Therefore, it's baloney to say that Object has a "financial interest." As a limited company, none of the directors are allowed to take profits. All members have a share to the value of £1. That's it, so get it right.

You say you know alot about Object, but you certainly don't know much about company law, so I seriously question whether you know much about Object then - other than you dislike the aims of their campaign, which is pretty obvious.

Actual Object does have a financial interest else it would not be a limited company. And having read the testimonals I could find double the number of women to speak positively about the industry. The fact that one of their keystone books is co-authored by a member of their campaign team might have you asking what are they earning. Fortunately they have to publish figures this year and a lot of people are looking forward to that. However of their testimonials only 2 could even be described as relevant and both worked in the more pressured LDCs rather than strip bars. And I am still for better reguation to protect the dancers.

The East Europeans I have met are either over here studying or trying to earn enough to change their lifestyles at home. Certainly of the 50 plus dancers I have met over the years from eastern europe never met one that was trafficked.

And knowing a lot about Object I always question everything they do. When they started they were for better regulation of the industry and I was all for that. Suddenly without annoucing anything they decide they want them closed and the industry driven underground. Nothing on th website saying they had changed direction or anything about why they had gone from protecting women and their right to work to abusing women and trying to lose them their jobs.

Not sure what website you are reading from certainly all the ones I know about say nothing that would upset anyone just a review of the location and a link to the LDC website.

Hi, I am Mrs Clown but have changed to Mrs Clown 1 so I can comment from home.
Tony N - by eastern europeans I meant that they may have been trafficked.

I received the objection pack from Harrogate and the comments would make anyone sick. There was a review on a website of one of them and the comments were awful about the women.

Ahh - cant understand why you dont mind having the sex trade on your high street so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that one. There are other jobs you can get without supporting the sex industry.

Anyone who doesnt already know. Please read the OBJECT website and the testimonials they have from ex strippers. Also, remember OBJECT (and I for that matter) do not have a financial interest in these places the companies who own the strip clubs do.

I went to Harrogate for the first time ever a few weeks ago and was quite shocked to see strip/'gentlemens' clubs on the High Street while were on our (short) way from the car park to the tea shop.
It seems that Harrogate is pandering to the many conference delegates who keep the town financially stable at the conference centre.
I guess these delegates are mostly male and in fact I recall my dad going away to Harrogate a lot on conferences in the 70's (shortly before having an affair, surely no connection).

Betty's tea shop is ACE though.

I had the exact same conversation in Tescos once.

Was a very strange conversation once had in a strip bar when discussing Higgs Boson but have to say very stimulating.

Astrophysicist

why naturally. I'd expect nothing less of a dancer.

Good for her (meant genuinely)

Wow MrsClown waiting to hear what all East Europeans are like. The ones I know are hard working and intelligent. As an example one I know is supplementing her money by dancing while she studies to be an astrophysicist, another i know has worked hard for years and now owns 2 business parks in her home country and I believe she is working towards her third which means she can retire and live very comfortably. So yes I know that eastern europeans work hard and have plans if that is what you meant.

sorry, i saw the thread title and though 'oo i love harrogate' and didnt see what topic it was in til after i posted.

Im not a regular poster in here (as you can probably tell!) but I will say this, dont let a thing like that spoilt a lovely town. These places are everywhere whether you agree with them or not or whether you notice them or not (i know which place your talking about and never noticed what it was until i saw this) it wouldnt have effected your visit if you didnt know so dont let it ruin what will hopefully be a lovely family day out now you do. By all means protest and spread awareness afterwards as obviously womens safety should be priority, just dont let it spoil your day. Its a lovely place and a lovely theatre and as people have said theres no reason for you to even walk past it so dont let it spoil your trip :)

Point missed completely.

If you don't have an agenda and genuinely wish to find out why some folks are concerned about this, visit OBJECT's website. Tonnes of info on the wider detrimental impact of strip joints on the locality and particularly the safety of women.

Its not like your going in...

Is there nowhere else in Harrogate you could find paid work then, not a single place?

(I was there a couple weeks ago and there were actually some shops that were looking for staff, so there surely are possibilities.)

Hello, appreciate your concern for the feminist cause (I really do I'm not being facetious) however I work part time in this club and rely on the wages to bolster my income for my family - they are not bad employees, and I've had much much worse jobs. So please think of the women that rely on this income and don't try and shut it down.

In terms of practicalities of going to the theatre with your family - depending on where you parked/where you are staying you wouldn't need to go near the club. You also cant really tell it is a stripclub (well ok, an adult could probably tell but the childrent wouldnt) it doesnt have any pictures outside and I've actually never seen a man go in! Even on Sat nights it doesnt have a stream of men going in and out. It just looks like a night club. You could walk past it 1000 times and probably not realise if you didnt know it was there.

A friend of mine who has visited me in Harrogate many many times was once astonished to read something about it and claimed he had never seen it. I described where it is and he said 'oh, but I;ve been past that! I never knew.'

I didnt actually know there was a second one...I am know wondering where it is, especially as you say it is near the ELC...

I'm not arguing against your writing to shut it down, that is of course up to you and the Harrogate feminists. I have to say in this day and age I dont see the need for strip clubs although.

But please dont let this spoil your visit to my lovely home town! I really dont think wildcats will impact your theatre visit. (No I dont work for the theatre or the council. I dont actually live there any more but visit often.)