HARROGATE

What on earth is a 'designer' feminist? Is this one of those times whereby people who don't have a leg to stand on invoke elitism in order to smear another person's point of view?

Please explain on this site, as I have no intention of giving your blog traffic - not least because that's clearly why you're here.

Yes designer feminists make me shudder too

Shudder

If I was here to be popular I wouldn't have opened mymouth in the first place would I lol And did you read the blog and find out why I think of you as a designer feminist?

Actual I have been to venues over the years in London and I have never seen people shouting out to women, it may be a regional thing but I have seen men calling out from ordinary bars when outside smoking or in the summer. I certainly don't know what is going on in Leeds but in London I know the strip scene very well and over the years I have met a high number of dancers and I have yet to meet one who stayed in the job that didn't want to do it. As performers they have the right to dance or not to dance and the few that don't like it have only to stop there is no such thing as still has to work. And before we go on about me being a customer and girls saying want the customer wants to hear I have been invited to dancers weddings, been to their houses, met their husbands and boyfriends so I would say that I probably know a lot more dancers than you and none of them dislike the job. Yes they will have bad days but you get that in any job.

See the wider picture as I see it is not the same as the wider picture as you see it. Perception is a strange thing but I can only go on my own experiences. The other thing that is different is I prefer the more traditional strip pub rather than the chain LDCs, certainly they need better regulation to provide better standards for the dancers but in London most venues you could walk past without even knowing they are there. I have no issues with the removal of any blatant advertising but to shut them down? Even Object when they started was for better regulation and it was only when they came out as designer feminists they changed their tune.

Read the blog it gives your a good idea of what a designer feminist is.

As for your arguments I have answered the same questions and statements 8 times across 3 threads (one of which was deleted). Become boring hearing the same blame statement about buying women. I go to be entertained the same as a film or theatre or Ballet or concert, the entertainer earns their living from their performance which I pay for the privilage of watching. There is no sex involved it is about making a fantasy for a short period and both parties know that. And remember films/plays/ballet all create a fantasy for a short time. And I guess if the film, play or ballet involves people being naked you are against that but the performer has decided they are willing to perform that way and it is their choice. What right have you to decide what other people can do?

snort

Dont worry I understand the designer feminist has no idea of the real world.

You really must assume we are idiots Tony.

It's an easy one for me. I'd far rather associate with the board and volunteers of Object (many of whom believe it or not, I actually know!) than anyone who believes it's a great thing to buy women, let alone those who profit handsomely from trading women.

Funny Mrs Clown, my DH and I manage to have a great time without patronising such establishments as well. Who'd have thunk it, eh?

Awww MrsClown having read what some of the volunteers of Object have done in the past you sure you wanted to admit that? Head to stripping the illusion by chasmal and find out a little more about the organisation you rave about.

LMAO sorry about the typo think everyone will know I meant Object.

Well considering what is on the stripping illusion blog about Objet think a lot of people will be questioning Been quite a bit added about the glorious Object.

Well Tony, if you could be bothered, rather than shit stirring, you could have looked on Object's website at their 2009-10 Annual Report to get an idea of funding for that year and what was expected in the year to come.

In that year, they got the following:

£10,000 grant from Allen Lane Foundation for the Demand Change Campaign
£5,000 from Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust for the Joining the Dots project
£2,000 from Unison Women's Committee to produce educational materials
£6,000 in member subscriptions
£14,000 from donations and fundraising activities (e.g. comedy nights, sponsored runs, jumble sales, that sort of thing - including a £1000 donation from Garden Court Chambers Social Fund.)

That adds up to £37,000 - hardly a princely sum when you think if the vast resources available within the for-profit porn, strip clubs, etc. industry!

According to the report, they expected to receive two new grants in 2010-11 that they would receive for a total of two years:

£50,000 from Trust for London for their education and campaigning work related to lap dancing clubs.
£25,000 from Esme Fairbairn towards core and strategic costs.

All this info is available on their site and on the respective funders' websites. Nothing is secret, so stop suggesting it is.

Like most small voluntary organisations, they are only able to do what they do because so many folks volunteer their time and resources to support them. They have few paid staff to co-ordinate the thing and tend to the admin, finance, regulatory, etc. stuff. The fact that they literally operate on a shoestring, yet achieve so much (and frighten people like you so much!) is a testament to the heartfelt commitment of the men and women involved in the organisation. It's hardly surprising they've won do many awards for their work. Amazing stuff.

I would have had no problem when I was working.

Just be interested to see exactly where Object gets money apart from the grants. And how those grants match up to the work Object is doing.

Won't be any skin off Object's collective nose to file accounts, so what's with the Maltese Falcoln stylie 'gonna investigate stance?' They have nothing to hide. I think you'll be surprised how small they are, and how modest their income and outgoings are.

You are of course quite happy to make you're company's accounts available to all who ask as well, right?

Parakeet I had written it elsewhere before the whole thread was deleted, I am friends with dancers outside of the industry including being invited to weddings, invited to their houses (and once again no not as a customer) met their boyfriends and husbands. Guess I know nothing then pmsl.

As to the company records Object incorporation date has meant their first figures will be April this year. And as soon as they have been made available there will be people asking for them.

I have a vision of Harrogate strippers as being something like the Marcus Brigstock and James Bachman characters from I'm Sorry I've Got No Head.

Sorry, completely irrelevant but had to throw it in. As you were everyone ...

Tony, you can get a copy of the audited accounts of any Limited Company from Companies House. Just go to their website. It's all perfectly transparent - so no need to suggest they are or are trying to hide anything.

Been a director and company secretary for probably all together about 8 or 10 companies going back well over 15 years. "Managing Director" is just a title, so doesn't really mean anything. But, if you are a director of a company (limited or otherwise,) you need to have a good working knowledge of charity law. If you fall foul of it, pleading ignorance is no excuse and won't prevent you from being fined, imprisoned or your own personal assets being drawn on if an unwise or unlawful decision was taken by the Board of directors that results in financial loss.

Just sayin.

(Not arsed enough to engage on any other issue though with someone who appears to regard the purchase of women as any more unethical than buying a gerbil from Pets at Home.)

(Come to think of it, buying a gerbil from a pet shop isn't terribly ethical, but I digress.)

I think you're in a minority Tony. These clubs make their money from erections.

I said you talk about the women you pay for as if they are things. I don't think women are things for men's use which is why I think that strip clubs, lapdancing clubs and the like should be outlawed. The way they have been in Iceland.

Dear Tony - do you really think someone working in the sex industry would give an honest account of it to one of her punters? That's not exactly going to be good for business.

Can you imagine it? "Yeah, to be honest, I hate this job, and I'm only doing it to put on the table for my kids, now go on dear, slip a twenty into my knickers and I'll take off my bra."