Reclaim the Night/MWR 2012

OMG - can we please all just stick together on here - divide and rule, oldest trick in the book. We are all marching for the same thing, able bodied or not.

Well thank you for letting us know that feminism won't solve all women's problems. We'll take that on board and come back to you with a better solution.

i'm getting a touch of the surreal here.

disabled feminists appear to be being accused of being disablist for giving a shit about a pregnant woman's mobility and access issues it's not a competition, personally my concern is not a finite resource that people must compete against one another for.

so you acknowledge you were wrong but then go on to have another go based on the false premise you already acknowledged?? boggling.

i occasionally pack a snack in my knickers when going on a march in case i get hungry - does that count?

TBE I thank you for that correction, in part it both allows for any one who needs it, but also and this is my main point all the way through this that women especially feminists need to be aware that talking about access and equality is not just a matter of genes or what you are packing in your pants.

I accept that I have been forceful in challenging some of the attitudes underneath the postings of others on this thread. I still fail to see why a pointing out that pregnancy is not a disability is? "patriarchal"? The imbalanance is what? Pregnancy being seen on a par with quadriplegics is stupid, crass, and deeply deeply offensive. Someone with a learning disability who will never ever be pregnant because of forced sterilisation by their parent for fear of unwanted pregnancy may also take extreme um bridge to that intlusion. This is the level of discussion I am working on to show to others on this site that feminism or womens studies is not of it's self the answer to al women's problems. I think that people in the disability movement and feminists share many common goals and indeed many of the experiences of being marginalised, abused, and seen as the problem. We should all work together and strive for shared goals. However this thread and others on the board have highlighted for me how lightly asome women, by no means feminists take the subject of disability.

No she was recommended the page because she expressed she may have difficulty finishing the march due to her pregnancy. That isn't saying pregnancy=disability. That is saying that this woman has mobility issues and she may be able to get some help from MWR. That is 1 pregnancy, 1 disability/mobility issue. Not all pregnancies result in disability. (as others have pointed out far more eloquently than me)

Can't quite believe we are having this conversation in the feminism section.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat If you look on page 1 of this thread you will see that on the basis of pregnancy someone was advised to use the disabled bus. How much clearer do you want the association to be! And as if more proof were needed the very next response in this thread after yours states that "For some people, pregnancy is a disability, or leads to a disability." Ok I agree for a small minority of women a lifelong debilitating injury or malfunction will occure during pregnancy and the birth process leaving that women with a health issue that impacts on her daily life.

The vast majority however will return to full function with little or no ongoing related health issues. My point has always been that people on this board are conflating pregnancy and long term impairment.

StewieGriffinsMom: I did not miss the part about money as if you had read my post carefully you would have seen referenced in my OWN post. My point stands what has that got to do with anything? Just because you ask for people to sub others does not make access issues disappear. Would you also like toi revisit what a none permanent disability would be? An injury perhaps, or as someone said a broken leg which for a small period of time limits mobility but is not of it's self a disability. If it were people would get DLA for ip and knee replacements, leg fractures, and dislocated ankles. If your won impairment like so many other peoples gives you long periods of mobility broken by periods of disability, do you choose on the weeks you can walk to use the disabled seats on trains and buses? What about a blue badge do you use that when you can walk? My point is that it is your choice to do so, you get to say what your level of need is not anyone else. However by the same token it is not for you to say that other people who may have the same limitations should not do the opposite. So even if you would give up your seat for a pregnant woman do not expect others to do like wise which means the seats are still for disabled people not prgnant ones.

specifically designated by who? there is a facility for people who are disabled or who for other reasons would have trouble completing the whole march this is good imo. if a heavily pregnant woman with mobility problems asked for help and they had room to give it to her and so did that would be good imo. clearly if they didn't have space they wouldn't be able to.

you seem determined to take offense where none was intended.

The point is, MWR are trying to make this as accessible as possible for as many women as possible.

For some people, pregnancy is a disability, or leads to a disability. What is patriarchal is describing the limitations of pregnancy as being "less" of an issue, for any reason. The point is that, at this moment in time, some pregnant women are experiencing lesser mobility, or are disabled. The point is not why they are experiencing this lesser mobility, or disability.

OK Notthefullshilling, you are being very rude and unnecessary on a thread about a march which is for making women's lives better. If you do not like the fact that MWR wants to accommodate women with mobility issues, take it up with them. By the same token if you think because it is a march it is excluding women then they are best placed to address your points.

Nobody has said pregnancy = disability or even insinuated that. We have said that pregnancy can cause real mobility issues and certainly lead to disability. You are fighting a straw man.

What the fuck is patriarchal about my comments? Show me!
And so bloody what if they are asking for people to fund ayslum seekers, what has that got to do with non disabled people using facilities specificly designated for disabled people?

My attitude has nothing to do with you having a disability, my attitude that you have no right to speak for anyone than yourself and your own needs does. I am making a larger point not based on my needs but the needs of a very wide section of society as well as a politicle and social one.

I objected to the insinuation that being pregnant is a disability, read my post. I then objected the flippant use of this social model to justify making pregnancy a disability.

The fact you do not see something does not mean it is not there. Also if this event did not replicate society in it's lack of access then you would be right it is somehow set apart from society. However this event quite clearly without malice if you wish, sets the same barriers as society at large and so reinforces the 2nd class nature of disabled people.

it's not the event that excludes those women but the set up of society that women are fighting against.

and i do actually have a disability - though maybe not one you'd approve of given your attitude.

i cannot see what you had to get angry and nasty about on here. you expressed you might have difficulty walking that far and someone pointed out to you that the march was providing help for women who couldn't do the full distance. you then chose to snark out at that person for trying to be helpful (another disabled person btw not that it's relevant).

i don't see disablism going on here - just one persons rudeness.

As someone with a mobility impairment from birth, my objection is that unlike a pregnancy no one consulted me about my feelings on the matter. Life has continued to segregate and point out my difference to all and sundry including myself for the last 40 years. I have lost count of the times when I am now no longer going to just smile and accept second place in society. The social model of disability is NOT some convienance for anyone to use as a means to define themselves when it suits them. Or are you all saying you will happily and gaily subject yourself s to the daily abuse, physical mistreatment, social rejection that other people with disabilities suffer. Perhaps if the bus had the word phrase cripple transport" you would be less keen to get on it. The social model is the same as feminism it defines a set of problems and attitudes that subjugate one set of people by others. What if we agreed that only unmarried women could be feminists as in many ways economical and social, they have a different life from other women....No do not like that idea well I do not like you chucking about ideas that are as important to others as lightly and blithely.

Yes if you must know the whole thing organised by women is very dis abelist, simply by marching anywhere at any time. The act of walking for the majority of women is simple, for others and some who have child care issues have already posted on this thread. Need weeks of planning just to be able to set foot outdoors. Others will rely on the help of many others, the co-operation of public transport of which a limited number is available, and the time of others paid and unpaid to assist them to "walk" from one place to another, from when they will need to return with all the same problems.

It excludes not by virtue of free will but by the sheer weight of planning and the ability to be independent thousands of women who may have wanted to take place. The solution is simple a large tented festival in the one place that people can get to and park. Women and men are all effected by disability this is a human rights issue just as much as feminism is. It is not about setting one group against the other, but each need to be aware that each has diffrent perceptions and needs.

i'm chuckling at the idea of getting one's disability credentials checked out before boarding the bus. maybe atos could lend their services for the day?

sorry madam receiving chemotherapy doesn't count as disability you'll 'ave to walk.

if you aint got a wheelchair you can't come in.

The text on the site is

"Women with Disabilities

Each year MWR has a mobility support van to ensure inclusion of disabled women and women who would have difficulty completing the length of the march. A map of the route will be available marking resting seats and public toilets for those who need resting places along the route. If you would like to know more about how MWR can support you to participate in this year?s march, please contact..."

So luckily it looks like they don't operate a pregnant woman bashing narrow version of disability, which presumably would also exclude those who had temporarily broken their limbs or were suffering an MS episode