Margaret Thatcher - Feminist Icon?

we have lost of 'society' and as smaller communites we try and create what has been lost but essentially we are just an island filled with materialism, competition, hatred, resentment and fear. In the last few weeks over the christmas and new year period so many people have either been killed or killed themselves, we have massive debt and racism issues and our youth don't know which way to turn for the best..........Im ashamed of this countyr at the moment

I think the difference in this country before and after her time as PM is massive, much more obvious than the difference made by Blair or Brown. Yes, we all have more money, but it has cost us so much.

back to the original question...I don't think she is an icon, she did alot of damage and there are still consequences of that now. Her attitude and contempt towards margins of our society bred a very greedy, ruthless and selfish minority that have basically led us to the situation we are in now.

I don't regard her as a feminist icon, because she didn't stand for feminism at all.

I am glad to have grown up in an era where a female PM was the norm - Mrs Baldwin, yes good to see a woman in the top job...just a shame she was so shit.

I liked some of the comments on that article... 'was she really made of iron? we ask an iron monger'.

Also 'it's been classified PG - unsuitable for miners'

sports 'There is so much visceral hatred against Thatcher on this thread. I wonder if those who hate her so much would have hated her to the same degree if she had been a man. Truthfully? '

Truthfully? Yes. I hate all ruthless, self serving autocrats who pull apart working, fair systems in order to pursue their own ideology, regardless of their gender. I hate Cameron et al for picking apart and quashing child poverty action schemes and the Every Child Matters agenda. Not because he's male but because of his actions.

People judge leaders on what they do for/to their country. It is belittling, patronising and simplistic to suggest people on this thread hate her because she is a woman.

Oh yes and I also agree with everyone who says she attracts more than her share of vitriol for being a woman.

I really don't know anything about her beyond who she was. Anyone care to fill me in on a few salient points?

This is a question I haven't thought about since 1989. But I went to see the film at the weekend so it brought it to mind again.

I think a feminist is someone who consciously sets out to help improve women's lives in big or small ways.

So in that sense Margaret Thatcher not one. (Although I didn't know about the example re prostitutes and Yorkshire Ripper investigation someone mentions).

However like another poster on the thread I was about 10 when she came to power. If you were an ambitious lower middle class teenager like me I think she certainly represented something to aspire to in the 'woman in a top job' sense.

On the various 'Thatcher the wrecker' views on the thread: I was interested that the film (which I hated BTW) made her fallings-out with the rest of the Cabinet more about her authoritarian personal style (as opposed to consensus-decision making that had driven previous Govts), rather than about differences of opinion re politics (although the two are related).

And on the film: although I'm not a Tory I hated the film for quite a lot of reasons, not least the dementia angle which I thought was a pretty cheap way of dealing with the Thatcher legacy. Dementia aside, you could have made that film about any head of state or political leader anywhere in the world at the end of their life, IMO. How about a 'regrets, I've had a few' 80s trilogy - next up Arthur Scargill, then General Galtieri for a grand finale.

So, feminist icon, no. A kind of inspiration for some (whether or not they liked her policies), yes. Film, 1 out of 5 (maybe bumping it up to a 2 for good performances from the Carol Thatcher actress and Jim Broadbent as Dennis).

Did anyone whose seen the film really like it (or is that another thread)?

I agree HandDived. Blair doesn't get the same amount of hate despite being a self-serving, lying toad, City sycophant, who did the square root of zero to help Labour's supposed natural supporters i.e. ordinary working people and those with less. Brown doesn't attract the same amount of hate despite raiding our pensions, spending money we don't have and selling off our gold at the bottom of the market to release cash to win votes over improving the NHS.

And you have to wonder why it's Thatcher that gets all the vitriol. It's 'cos she's a woman innit?

Thought it might be as I wrote it, sports!

She isnt an icon never mind a feminist one , she was a terrible horrible woman who destroyed this country and seemed to have adistaste for scotland , and the thought of her being put on film as some sort of martyr makes me feel a bit ill ,

'That said, I would be delighted to pay for a state funeral for Thatcher - just so long as she is buried alive'

Brilliant. I might get this quote put on a Tshirt.

HandDived. That predated Thatcher - mid 70s.

I agree sportsfanatic. Yes she certainly wasn't my cup of tea politically but she has attracted more vitriol than any male PM, many of whom have fucked up royally. Blair took us to war for now, nearly a decade on a lie ffs.

I hate her for destroying the working classes, doing away with social housing and generally being a grade A tosspot.

Think people hate her because she was a memorable figure, sports. Most influential PM in our lifetimes, I'd say.

To be fair, she never campaigned on a feminist platform, just a conservative one. She was ruthless and self-serving in the way successful male politicians are ruthless and self-serving. Ironically, the thing that was truly revolutionary about her in Tory terms, and which they had most trouble dealing with by all accounts, was that she was 'common' . Grammar school educated and a chemist by training rather than being from the usual old boys' club. So the washing up stunt may be about as anti-feminist as you can get but her trump card was that she could claim - more than public school educated Labour leader Michael Foot - to be ordinary. Her ideology was also strong on personal independence and I think, even though that's not specifically feminist, women value that quality having had it denied for so long.

There is so much visceral hatred against Thatcher on this thread. I wonder if those who hate her so much would have hated her to the same degree if she had been a man. Truthfully?

And if you do hate her more because she was a woman are you not falling into the trap of double standards - something feminists condemn utterly when it comes to other issues such as sexual behaviour (for example)?

Agree with thunder that she was a female icon. I also thought she enabled women to be in charge of their own finances i.e. allowed us to have mortgages/own bank accounts etc without having to have a male signatory. I may be off with my timing though, I was only 8 when she came into power.

But I don't think she was a feminist icon. She didn't have an agenda for women, she just wanted to show she could be as ruthless and agressive as the men. (well I am sure that wasn't all she wanted to achieve but you know what I mean).

I agree Ellen about misogynistic men. So why did you connect them and put yourself into a misogynistic mind trap when you said "Who would ever let a woman be in charge of anything if she had to be like Thatcher"? Feminists should never ever make that connection. It's playing into misogyny.

You thought she was shite. Fair enough. A lot of people didn't. And why should a woman be held to different standards than a man e.g. why should the first female PM have to be bloody marvellous.

Women will ever only be equal when they are allowed to fail without someone drawing attention to the fact they are women.

Thatcher a feminist icon? Daftest thing I've heard in a long time. As numerous posters have pointed out, she had no interest in gender issues and the policies of her government were by accident or design, deeply damaging for other women.

Don't buy the Rags to Riches bollocks either, he father was a local bigwig who owned a couple of Grocery stores, Mayor of Grantham, Magistrate, Chair of the Rotary etc.

She was also married to a millionaire who supported her during her countless attempts to get adopted as an MP and qualify as a Lawyer. Nothing wrong with that per se, but she seemed hell bent on denying similar opportunities to women who hadn't the fortune to have married someone fabulously wealthy.

That said, I would be delighted to pay for a state funeral for Thatcher - just so long as she is buried alive.

She wasn't a feminist; but the fact of her being Prime Minister was important. It became conceivable to men that a woman could do a "man's job" as well as a man and without "allowances" being made. She would not have been allowed to get to where she was if she had seen to be interested in "women's issues"

Women are now allowed into men's worlds and to participate in men's activities and environments to a much greater extent than in 1979 and that is to some extent due to the fact of her existence and achievement.

Whilst we are allowed to participate in the male world now; and that world is increasingly and erroneously seen as "gender neutral" we are a long way from men having any respect for what have traditionally been female or feminine activities/ways of thinking/concerns. The feminine is still seen as something to be belittled and dismissed. She did nothing to assist with this; but would have been well ahead of her time if she had.

Maybe she didn't promote women because the men were better qualified or no women applied.

This raises several feminist issues. If there were no women applying or who were qualified when they make up 51% of the UK population then that begs the question why?

And once you get into the why (institutional sexism and a patriarchal society), then the next logical step for a feminist in a position of power is to try to fix that problem. Thatcher didn't do that. Therefore she is not a feminist because she did not display feminist ethics or introduce feminist policy.

Margaret Thatcher was an individualist and interested in advancing the aims and ambitions of Margaret Thatcher, not women.

No, sports. She was the first female Prime Minister. She was shite. The two should not be connected, but in any undecided mysogynistic mind they are likely to be. I hated her for failing women. I wanted the first female Prime Minister to be bloody marvellous, much like I want Barak Obama to be bloody marvellous.

Who would ever let a woman be in charge of anything if she had to be like Thatcher?

That's falling into a misogynistic trap. You might as well say "Who would ever let a man be in charge of anything if he had to be like Blair, Brown, Cameron etc."

I saw the film on Friday and didn't recognise the Thatcher I remember from their sympathetic portrayal. She set back feminism for years due to her policies. Who would ever let a woman be in charge of anything if she had to be like Thatcher? I came out of the film thinking, stab, stab, stab!