Margaret Thatcher - Feminist Icon?

As someone quite new to exploring the depths of feminism (thanks to you lot) I'm still shakey on the ins and outs of our history etc. But from what I have learned in this short time is basically what Winky said. We want Equality. I don't think that's what Thatcher was about either.

So in my humble opinion no she was not a feminist icon.

Here you are. God love her - fighting for his release. Not what an icon does in my book.

Unprincipled actually means lacking some moral compass.

I do believe that can be applied to Thatcher.

It does not mean not having any principles.

Ah yes, Pinochet. They were very good friends, weren't they? If you can be buddy buddy with a mass murderer, then where exactly do you stop? That imo is like being friends with Hitler. That is a valid comparison.

Hence, she is unprincipled.

oh and I didn't specifically compare her with Hitler but I do think she was evil (I'm not the only one on this thread either). She also had dubious allies (Pinochet??)

It's really rude to refer to someone as nuts.

No, 'unprincipled' does not mean 'has no principles'. That's not the definition of the word.

'Her attitude and contempt towards margins of our society bred a very greedy, ruthless and selfish minority that have basically led us to the situation we are in now.' - that's how I see her influence.

Hitler has already been mentioned I think along with quite a few others.

Oh no. Don't bring Hitler into it.

No, it means lacking a moral compass. It means unscrupulous. She knew what the consequences of her policies would be but she didn't care. That's what's unprincipled. I'm sure Hitler had what he would have called principles as well...

Yes, I know what unprincipled means, it means not having any principles

Mrs T most definitely had principles. They are not your principles. They aren't mine, as it happens. But you can't say someone's decision making was unprincipled when we're talking about a woman whose most salient feature was sticking unwaveringly to what she believed.

i know what is "unprincipled" is...
I don't understand what is "unprincipled decision making"

Everyone knows what unprincipled means.

I am not sure I understand what do you mean by "her entirely unprincipled decision making". Do you mean she declared certain principles but her decisions did not support them?

Why do people keep saying this is about her being a woman?? Her gender has nothing to do with it. It's not about whether it's inappropriate for a woman to be ruthless rather than caring.

What it's about is her entirely unprincipled decision making. Same as the current bunch of tories.

The third way is equality, Widow. That is what feminism is about.

Equality is not what Thatcher espoused in any sense of the word.

And equality is certainly not prevalent in the 21st century. For women, the disabled, for people of colour. It's still disgraceful.

winkywinkola - what would that "third way" be then? I don't think that if you really want to argue equality you can go on about how different women allegedly would do it.

By the way, Dennis's first wife left him and left him devastated, all before her left Maggie, so to suggest she was also a husband stealer is quite wrong.

sorry, copied a wrong quote (damn keyboard)
"I don't think Thatcher has particularly facilitated any more women in politics, much less another female P.M. "

"But there have been female M.P.s for a long time."

She was not concerned with "facilitating anybody as another PM", but she did make it easier for another woman nonetheless because it is no longer a shock if a woman becomes a head of the government.

Just as it is no longer a shock-horror that a black man can become the president of the USA and Obama's privileged background and his not-so-black skin (to quote some) is irrelevant... (I was actually hoping Hillary to take this top job as someone mentioned to me the girls with a name ending with "-y" are not "high achievers" bollocks...)

So no one, male or female, who reached the top by being ruthless is an icon, winky? The problem, which Thatcher faced and other leaders face, is that unless you are ruthless you never get anything done. Every political decision is going to upset somebody.

And to suggest that the unions and the Labour Party have historically been feminist is tosh too.

But there have been female M.P.s for a long time. I don't think Thatcher has particularly facilitated any more women in politics, much less another female P.M.

Plus she was in a role where she could have tried to introduce more legislation to improve women's lot in the world of work etc. I'm not aware she did anything of the sort.

Whether men are ruthless and women are compassionate is irrelevant in terms of stereotyping. What matters is what qualities we value and if it took ruthlessness and coldness to reach the top, are those qualities admirable? I don't necessarily think they are, whether 'male' or 'female' qualities.

I believe feminism represents a third way. Not the same old ways, the old boys ways. And because of that and Thatcher's reinforcement of those old skool values, she is not a feminist icon.

"as a person WHO wants the top job"

"She behaved as she had to behave to get to the top - like a man.Is that admirable? I guess in a way it is because she made it. But as a feminist? Nope."

But this is where I would disagree. There were only men in top politics then, so did she behave "as a man" or did she behave "as a person to wants the top job"? She did break through into this layer as a "herself", but her action allowed other women to gain positions into the top politics, because the argument "she is the woman, so she is not able to perform in this role" is no longer relevant.

And what is all this about "ruthless" as a man's characteristic and "caring" as woman's? Gender stereotyping much?