Dressing "smart" to be taken seriously

I remember a colleague being called in to a meeting with HR about her inappropriate dress - she was very upset and angry, because she tended to wear either skirt suits or dress-suit combos, and was always very well presented. Her skirts were never very much above the knee.

The reason, we concluded, that she was called out on it, was because she was tall, with long legs, and our female manager saw her as a threat. Other women who wore shorter skirts could get away with it because they either had shorter legs or were older.

OP I agree that your problem might be your youthful appearance rather than a skirts v trousers etc thing.

I had a similar issue when I last worked: I was passed over for promotion which my line manager said was because they needed someone with more gravitas. 12 months later, at the next opportunity, I was promoted. I had the same kind of feedback/client reports, the only difference was that I had stopped dyeing my hair (because I was TTC, not actually in an effort to look older).

I can only conclude that my badger-streak highlights gave me that extra gravitas they were looking for!

some spectacular point missing going on here.

the OP is not a lawyer wanting to wear jeans and a vest to work. one example she gives is being told she should not wear dresses despite the fact other female colleagues do. she is being expected to comply to different standards to her colleagues because she is an attractive woman - is that fair?

she's not being asked to conform to company policy or a dress code. no one has questioned the need for that.

Many industries require a certain standard of dress...it's up to you if you choose to conform or not, although this could affect your career

Some require a polished look if dealing with the public others a more relaxed approach

Some you have to wear special protective clothing

I think it's all about getting on with the job with minimal interruption or risk to yourself and making others feel comfortable.

It's all about perception, I would be in two minds if my lawyer or consultant was scruffy, dirty and had unclean hair even if they were the best in their field. I'm conditioned to expect them to be neatly turned out, superficial yes but i'm afraid this is how I initially judge their ability

but surely the most effective way to "appeal" to the male or female is to have the status markers there, in well-cut, flattering clothes. Which tend to reveal body shapes somewhat.

The compulsory cosmetics must look natural - which takes ages.

I'm not sure that this "appeal to the male" is a good bet. If you happen to encounter a man who's absorbed some feminist ideas, he might think "She's trying to manipulate me" and do the exact opposite of what you want. It would be a question of knowing your audience, I suppose.

And I wish nobody ever thought that cosmetics are compulsory, anywhere.

I can be a terrible scruff sometimes especially when not out on site or meeting clients.

At the moment - sitting in front of the laptop with MN and the widescreen monitor with CAD - I am wearing a faded short-sleeved top that is too baggy, faded jeans that are too tight and flipflops.

Meeting a (male) client -or contractor if in their office, I have sometimes (yes Cogito I admit to the awful deed...) dressed girly as in "appeal to the male" but on site it's trousers and bright yellow jacket all the way.

Cogito I would never stoop to that level

I work in a hostel/supported accommodation and our dress code is smart casual. I usually wear a "day" dress over leggings or jeggings or jeggings/jeans with a top. Flat shoes - ballet pumps or boots in winter, and sandals in summer.

My boss (hostel manager) wears trainers, jeans and a t-shirt, occasionally he wears chino type trousers. Other male colleagues wear jeans with a casual shirt, females wear jeans/trousers with a t shirt/blouse jumper etc.

Some of the other scheme managers wear more formal clothing, and all head office staff wear suits, although thinking about it, I've never seen the Chief Exec in a suit!

I wear minimal make up, but enough for me to be able to leave the house

The only thing I have to consider is cleavage - I either buy things that aren't low cut, or wear a higher cut top underneath. I'm a 36 E so it's pretty hard to get away from the fact that I have boobs! Any matter of inappropriateness or sexual harrassment would be taken very seriously - luckily, it hasn't been an issue for me so far.

Our clients were asked how they would feel about staff having a uniform and they all voted against it as they felt it would create more barriers between them and staff and breed a them/us divide.

If I turned up in a suit I'd get laughed at, and it would be very strange!
Oh, and I'm 24 but look about 16! Sorry nothing helpful to say but just thought I'd give you another perspective of someone who works in the same field.

Like LRD, I am a D cup, I don't think that is bigger than average, yet I have never found a shirt that does not gape.

So I have to wear tops that cling to my figure. I don't want cleavage on display, but a high-necked jersey top looks really odd under a suit.

I find that everyone - male and female - treat me much better when I am styled in business uniform of a black or grey suit, have pinned up my hair aand have spent ages making my make up seem "natural". Frumpy clothes make us look unconfident, or behind the times.

Do you feel you have to disguise them? I have not felt that I am being taken more seriously when I wear something boxy and shapeless as opposed to fitted.

There are plenty of work clothes that are cut to flatter but are still appropriate. Sure, work shirts are often a bit of pain if you have bigger breasts, but just because the retailers cater to "average", so the shirts won't fit women with bigger than average breasts. nothing to do with disguising breasts, I'm sure people with any bigger/smaller than average body part have issues on high street.

big difference between not exposing your cleavage and feeling like you have to disguise your breasts though clearly.

Hazlenutt hit the nail on the head

I once worked with a woman who didn't wear knickers or a bra and very short skirts, made everyone very uncomfortable I wished some had had a word tbh.

there is nothing wrong with a business suit that also emphasizes your curves and shape. Cleavage on display is not work appropriate though - and not because of being a guardian of male sexuality. I personally, as a woman, do not want to have someone's tits in my face during a business meeting, the same way I don't want to sit opposite a male colleague with his shirt unbuttoned.

Now then........ is anyone here willing to admit that just occasionally, knowing that the target is some easily-led man, they have dressed not quite as business-sober as normal and exploited their... ahem... assets in order to influence the decision? I'm pretty sure I have.

When I was a lawyer I always wore black or navy trouser suits. Occasionally brown. I chose them precsisely because they said very little about me.

Partly to overcome my very long blonde hair, and natural...ahem...assets, which I think often took centre stage.
I wnated to be taken very seriously by judges etc and I also wanted to put across to my clients that they were the very centre of my energies.
I didn't wnat my dress to detract in any way iyswim.

To be fair, DH wears only grey or navy suits. He dresses very formally. But then he is quite young and handsome for his position and wants to foster gravitas.

Yes, it is odd santa. Especially when you look at the way that a man's suit is beautifully designed to emphasize broad shoulders and skim the waist - it's a really flattering piece of clothing that makes most men look good. If I wear something that emphasizes my boobs the way a good suit emphasizes a man's body, I don't look work-appropriate (I don't think).

I agree with bonsoir that wearing colours is good - purple and green, anyone?

Black trouser suits are very depressing; there is a large office building between our home and DD's school that I walk past every day and every single person going in or out of it seems to be dressed in a black suit. So dull.

I think coloured business attire is just fine for women; better IMO to play very safe with cut and show no flesh/leg but to be a bit more daring with colour or even print.

it is women being responsible for men's sexuality again really isn't it? we don't wear burquas but we are supposed to be able somehow hide our breasts - not easy to do - women have breasts some women have big breasts. i find women's shirts impossible.

don't we think it's odd that the way to be taken seriously is to hide your boobs?

no they don't because they're not looked at as sexual in the same way.

Where do you buy stuff then, vix, and how much do you reckon it costs? I agree with you re. black trouser suits, btw. Not very comfortable either, IMO.

It's the 'too much cleavage' that bugs me. If I wear a suit, my options are either to wear a shirt two sizes too big or (I imagine) to get one made. I am not unusually big in the bust, I am a D cup. I don't think men have this sort of problem.

In an environment where the men wear suits women need to wear something of equivalent formality. That does not necessarily mean a suit; but I would not expect women in my office (lawyers) to turn up with:

• bare legs
• bare shoulders
• too much make up
• skirts more than three or four inches above the knee

• too much cleavage

For us I think that there are broadly two looks that work: "bluestocking" and "businesswoman", together with variations in between. This still leaves plenty of scope for individual style and taste. The black trouser suit has (except in rare cases of exceptional cut)to be the most depressing and generally unflattering option available

I expect it depends what you're doing. Oddly enough, my brother works for a hostel too, and he was told that dressing casually was appropriate, because his clients were more likely to have bad associations with people in suits. My brother is the least professional-looking person I know, usually to be found in ripped jeans, hoodie, scruffy ponytail and badly-shaven face. However, he also works with very violent drug-users and against pimps. He's never been beaten up and seems to have the respect (or appearance of respect, which will do!) of his clients.

I am curious now what the women at his work wear - I doubt they've been told to dress smart, but it's certainly not impossible there's a double standard.

I got told to dress smart and I do it - I don't want anyone to mistake me for a student when I'm teaching. But I do think men have it a lot easier, for the reasons edithweston gives. FWIW If I turned up in a cheap black suit, I would be written off as 'not serious'. No idea why. It's stupid.

My husband shaves and puts on a shirt and tie for work.
I apply light make and a skirt and tights.

We both dress differently than we would at home and it is an effort for both of us. I don't see it as sexist, more as being professional.

Many men in my H's line of work dress casually, he chooses not to. It is the same for me. I think you inspire more professional confidence if you look professional.

As for being too young and attractive - well, that is a problem we would all like to have. Time will fix it.