To lose more respect for MIL than I thought possible?

You are making a lot of sense to me trois, I do think feminism is essential and has had a huge, positive impact on the lives of many women, whether they consider themselves feminist or not.
But a lot of the choice and flexibility that I hoped for isn't there yet.
I'd have loved to have been a SAHM, but the logical choice was for my partner to take that role. So that's what happened.
This is something I have despaired over too:

'I would be curious if it were possible to interview a 15yo girl from 100 years ago. What do you think her aspirations were? To marry well? possibly a wealthier man? To have lots of healthy children? Possibly the notion of voting wouldnt have popped into her head despite sufferage being in the news.

Fast forward to day. What do you think the average 15yo wants to be? A WAG? (that covers wealthy husband and social mobility within peer group)Children? And I cant find the link immediately, but something like 82% of 18yos are registered on FB but only 44% are registered to vote.And they will never have picked up a news paper, listend to the radio or watched the news on the telly either.'

What she probably means is that she wishes for a bygone world where there were more available jobs for under-acheiver men because the expectation was that all the over-achieving women would be at home in the traditional role. She wants that for herself and sees her husband's lack of job as a symptom of women's rights. In a weird roundabout way, she's not wrong.

The feminists of the 70s/80s i believe de-valued women staying at home by pushing woman to be able to do traditional male jobs - so it made traditional female roles less valued. That's probably why there was a decline of women cooking, sewing, being sahms etc. Those traditionally female things are quite often sneered at (i know as i am a quilter and i get laughed at regularly!). They have only just started becoming more popular again in the last few years

Factor in the mantra of you can have it all - not a job, oh no, but a career! AND own your own home AND children (AND you don't need a man).

Infact you cant keep all those balls up in the air on your own at all. Somepeople (not just women) don't want a career - they like pootling along with no stress in a job. Some people dont want the aggrivation and encumberance of a mortgage. Some people like the tradition idea of a family including a husband.

But the you can have it all mantra went from being an option or choice to being the desired format, forced down our throats by the media - who decided people like Nicola Horlick was the desired aspiration.
Well it worked for her and she was exceptional.

flossy I am also a quilter. I am also in a fairly high powered job.

In my heart I know that I would jump at the chance of moving to a very small village and spending my days quilting.

One of the downsides of feminism was the profligate mortgages offered post '70's - 5 times joint income, pushing house prices out of normal boundaries. The knock on from that exists today. Women, largely, have to work rather than have a choice to work.

Choice^ is the key. When choice gets removed people get resentful.

Yes

And what flossymuldoon said too.

We, by and large, don't have choice.

Oh and when I went back to work after the DCs were born, there was a particular member of my family who was ahem, less than supportive of this decision saying that it was my duty to stay at home with them.

However, a few years on I'm now a SAHM for the moment after becoming a victim of the cuts and the same family member asks if I've got a job yet or it if I'm going to let my DH 'keep' me now. The implication being that I should be out earning and contributing to the household.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't by and large.

I think there is something in what she says.

The feminists of the 70s/80s i believe de-valued women staying at home by pushing woman to be able to do traditional male jobs - so it made traditional female roles less valued. That's probably why there was a decline of women cooking, sewing, being sahms etc. Those traditionally female things are quite often sneered at (i know as i am a quilter and i get laughed at regularly!). They have only just started becoming more popular again in the last few years.

I get what they were trying to do but now more woman work and have less choice about being able to stay at home and look after their children. As woman are seen more as equals i think they are expected to provide for the family rather than leave it all to the men.

Those that do work (i would guess the majority - me included) are now expected to work, do the majority of child rearing AND do the 'wife' work. I am grateful for the movement as i am able to have a good job but i don't think the feminist movement changed that much. It just made our lives different.

shes just cross with her own situation thats all

Im afraid I'm rather amused that the PIL, who stays at home, ferries her round, cooks, cleans and plays games on the PC is a 'cocklodger' apparently - and exactly what is a woman who stays at home and does all that (apart from the golf games because she's MN-ing all day) - is ther a similar term for her?

Feminist ideals my arse. The same social prejudices towards gender bias are in place that have been there for all eternity.

they all vote, don't dress up or care much about their appearance and demand to be treated with respect.

How would that be possible without feminism?

Well if all you've taken away as a concept of feminism is the choice to look scruffy, then it was a pointless exercise.

One of the downsides of feminism was the profligate mortgages offered post '70's - 5 times joint income, pushing house prices out of normal boundaries. The knock on from that exists today. Women, largely, have to work rather than have a choice to work.

*Choice^ is the key. When choice gets removed people get resentful.

I would be curious if it were possible to interview a 15yo girl from 100 years ago. What do you think her aspirations were? To marry well? possibly a wealthier man? To have lots of healthy children? Possibly the notion of voting wouldnt have popped into her head despite sufferage being in the news.

Fast forward to day. What do you think the average 15yo wants to be? A WAG? (that covers wealthy husband and social mobility within peer group)Children? And I cant find the link immediately, but something like 82% of 18yos are registered on FB but only 44% are registered to vote.And they will never have picked up a news paper, listend to the radio or watched the news on the telly either.

Therefore I deduce that time hasn't altered outlook very much.

She sounds like an idiot. Feminism has given her choices not made her work. Without feminism her Husband would still be unemployed, but they would have no income.

I would stand up and be counted as a feminist.

Your post has given me something to be irritated about besides my baby's choice not to sleep tonight.

PILs are exactly the same - but she's the lazy fucker who disagrees with education for women (at 16 my goal in life should have been to have her grandchildren and look after now dh). Fil doesn't agree with women working as it is "bad for the economy" (accountant who thinks he is second only to god).

I'm nearly 29, have dedicated my life so far to the nhs and am on my second degree. We don't get on

I like cooking for my family, mainly cos they are all well trained in compliments , but that doesnt mean I am not a feminist. And not wanting to work doesnt mean you are not a feminist. I cant think of many people who would work full time in proper jobs and careers if they genuinely didnt need to!

I do think that she just resents having to be the breadwinner when that job should be shared between her and her husband.

I kind of feel sorry for her. But I'm proud of feminism.

YANBU and you know it, but yeah, agree with Bogeyface that it's more about shifting the blame away from her cocklodger husband than with feminism itself.

Never fear though - this thread will still kick off with all the usual Stepfords coming on to shy away from any association whatsoever with feminism, and defend her right to totally reject it (whilst reaping all the hard-won benefits themselves).

She is probably saying that feminism is to blame because she cant face the fact that she is married to a lazy loser.

I wouldnt let it bother you tbh, it is hardly a coherent argument and is coming from a woman who is being treated badly.

Nope YANBU at all. I can never understand women who don't "believe" in feminism or claim to not be feminists. Yet they're all right reaping all the bloody benefits feminism has brought though aren't they. They'd be the first ones to moan and whine if it went back to how it was.