To lose more respect for MIL than I thought possible?

iamusually, I would certainly reply that as you earn twice as much, it was actually DH spending your hard earned money.

My sister (28) was advised in no uncertain terms not to report sexual discrimination/comments made to her in the (very old school, misogynistic) workplace by a friend of the same age, cause it 'was to be expected in that environment', and she'd get a name for herself. My response was equally certain. Luckily my sister is capable of taking care of herself and dealt with the colleague (a subordinate as it turns out) in a suitable fashion. I was just shocked that a woman of our age could harbour such ideas.

However my sister did come out with the gem over Christmas that if you become a mother you have to be happy to sacrifice your career, that that was fair. Again my response was pretty , I think my family see me as some sort if militant...which they weren't expecting as I am a SAHM at the mo. Luckily dh thinks this kind of attitude is bonkers too, his face was a picture during both exchanges.

In my opinions Feminism can easily go too far, like all the rubbish about disney princess's being bed because it portrays the conventional image of what little girls should be like. :o Yeah, well, not all little girls like that sort of thing do they? And theres nothing wrong if they do?!! Sometimes I think feminists just kick up a fight about something coz their bored, not because they have anything useful or relevant to say...

iamusually - that's really mad! Your MIL's attitude, I mean. How on earth can she call it "DH's hard earned money" when it's family money and you work and earn more than him anyway??
Perhaps it's something that was said a lot to her and it's an ingrained response.

DH tried that one on me when we were still in the UK - except that I wasn't earning twice as much as him at the time, I was earning about £100 a month less than him - he got very short shrift! He'd conveniently ignored any money I was bringing in because I didn't "go out to work" every day. No, I was at home, looking after DS and working from home - somehow that didn't count in his eyes.

Whenever I buy anything, my MIL says "oh, spending all dhs hard earned money again are we", she knows full well I earn twice what dh does, but instead of going go on girl, good for you, she chooses to perpetuate the myth that man is hunter gatherer, she also thinks it disgraceful he does all the ironing, some women want shooting!

In response to SGM....

Those who suggest that feminists believe should work and all the childcare and all the Wifework are talking out of their arse.

I never suggested that we should do that for a minute or that Feminists believe that, but that's what seems to happen in most households i know!

Feminists believe that childcare and 'Wifework' are equally the responsibility of women AND men.

Yes and so do i, but not everyone is a feminist unfortunately! I don't believe this is how it should be and i agree wholeheartedly.

Feminists are also not to blame for those of you living lazy, self-entitled arseholes who don't co-parent your children or take equal responsibility for the work required to keep a family safe and healthy.

No they are not but Feminist movement was more about womens roles rather than mens, and i don't think men and how they view their roles have moved on as much as we would all like. I agree with spuddybean that in some ways it let men off the hook a bit.

Oh and Coralanne. I would too. So if you do it, take me with you!!

"Buy her a book on women's history, she will see that women working has nothing to do with feminism."

Is that really true?

my mum (she is 62) comes out with some real gems the other day it was it is so annoying when women accuse men of harassment when all they have done is made silly comments and if they are harassing them they should learn how to deal with it. she also thinks that men used to have more respect for women before feminism because they didn't swear in front of women

my mum went off to work abroad when she was 18, has never married and always done as she pleased is not conventional at all so you woudl think she is more supportive of the feminist movement

i have a few friends who think feminism have made things worse for women too and surprise surprise so do their partners

She is ignorant and looking for a scapegoat. Buy her a book on women's history, she will see that women working has nothing to do with feminism.

That looks more like boobs - Dust!

That looks much more rolly.

...@ ...@ ...@

innit. Or something like that.

- ( ) ( ) --

I've forgotten how you do tumbleweed.

That;s what I meant Tanith, and that it is the responsibility of the individuals within a relationship to ensure that there is balance and equality that suits them both.
It is a pity that MN have moved this thread to feminism, as a number of posters who might have had an opinion or wanted to discuss these areas of interest might well also be posters that either don't post here or indeed have hidden the topic completely and be puzzled as to why the thread has vanished.
Pigeonholed again.

I don't think any of them were advocating this. I saw their posts as an observation of how feminism has had an unexpectedly adverse effect on women as well as positive achievements. Needs addressing, surely, not swept under the carpet and denied?

aldi when i said women earn less i didn't necessarily mean they get paid less for doing the same job as a man. I meant the roles open to women are filtered into lower paid options for other reasons ie 'female skills' (caring, hospitality, admin etc) and convenience (flexible hours round child care/part time).

I think it's a separate issue if someone does the same job for unequal pay.

DP often says to me it's my fault that i don't earn as much as him (as did exH and father too) as i could have chosen a more lucrative career. However, this falsely assumes all choices are equal and all skills are respected equally.

It is not women's fault that society has chosen (often arbitrarily) to compensate some skills more than others. And that those skills happen to be male. Being a feminist to me is not about becoming the same as men, but seeing both genders differences on equal footing.

I can't argue that my earnings were a factor in my choice, or ability to make the choice. DH was earning a lot more than me, for a lot less hours, but not sure whether that's because he's male, or rather the fact the his chosen career pays fairly well. I know there are women doing the same job as him for the same pay, and are actually more successful thanks to feminism in part... MY wages were shoite.

Feminism liberates men too. It means they don't have to look after women who 'choose' not to work. If however, as a family they choose between them that one should stay home looking after the family, then that is often the woman because sadly (women aren't equal yet so) she often earns much less (due to roles being valued less for 'female skills' compared to 'male skills'). (statistically this happens after 20s when children are born)

I personally feel that feminism actually liberates men more than women - not assigning them a life of responsibility to provide for a spouse.

"Uninteresting, teetotal, no friends or social life, spends all his time reading or playing golf on the computer, cheuffers hsr around for hikes, cooks, cleans etc.."

Why is ops fil being called a 'loser husband'.?
Op finds him uninteresting but op mil doesn't (" He's a good husband though (to her)").
Nothing wrong with being teetotal.
So what if he doesn't socialise a lot? It might not suit op but as long as op mil okay with it, no problem.
And for the rest of it he seems to back-up and support her in what she is doing.
Why 'loser'?

Its all a bit 'what have the romans ever done for us?' isn't it?

Feminism isn't a one hit wonder, its not a case of 'ooh we got the vote, job done' some changes have been good for women, sometimes there's a downside. I've always thought feminism is a process that's part and parcel of improving life and choice for all, and it has delivered on many levels, failed on others and still has a long way to go.

There is choice, but its not always clear. I'm a SAHM, my DH isn't rich, I chose this life, but as is life, had to sacrifice certain things too. Its not something I took lightly. I'd like to see a world where one adult could support a household with at least two children on just above minimum wage, if that happened real choice would begin for many. I agree a bar to choice is capitalism!

Its not my duty as a woman to SAH, its my choice as a woman. Had DH wanted to give up his job (I lost mine, bummer, made my choice easier) we'd have negotiated. I always wanted to SAH whilst my children were young. I don't believe that is unfeminist. I happen to be a woman is is good at caring roles, I enjoy my role. It doesn't make me less of a woman, or a feminist than those who sneer at me because I'm not proving the world wrong in some way.

Most people I know who declare themselves Feminist wouldn't assume I'm letting the side down at all, because I have choice, am not a doormat, and our circumstances meant that we couldn't split our life 50/50 exactly, but we come close, and have respect for each other.

There are a few who think I'm pathetic, a leech, someone to pity, or someone to kick because I've chosen a path in life they feel is unfeminist. Bollocks to them.

Choice is great, whether you're a man or a woman. But your MIL is being unreasonable. If she had been married to a lazy underachiever pre-feminism, she'd still have had to work (or alternatively live in poverty) and still be resentful of his laziness but there would have been none of the good things today such as equal pay for equal work, the ability to easily divorce a husband you don't want to be married to and still keep your children, the ability to take a degree as a woman and use it in a job that you like and are good at. And the 'lazy' husband wouldn't be doing any cooking or cleaning. He'd be down the pub drinking whatever money he had managed to make, quite likely. BTW, if he's doing all the housework etc, he's not really that lazy is he? He just doesn't have a job.

Troisgarcons- I think you misunderstood my post.
Of course one partner in a couple can be a 'homemaker' if the other partner can financially support it and both parties agree this is possible and indeed desirable. My point is that this shouldn't be a default position. Why should a woman assume, particularly at a point in her life when there are no dependent children, that as long as her husband is bringing in enough, that she has an automatic right to not work and spend her day doing as she pleases, bankrolled by hubby?? And tbh I can't imagine many couples either a) being able to afford it or b) feeling its a desirable and worthwhile way to live. I know very very few women in late 40s /50s who don't work at all- and frankly the ones I know are bored and boring!
The ops MIL isn't even in a position where it's affordable to not work anyway. Her loser husband is a separate issue. She needs to address that because it can't be good for either of them that he sits around all day. But she should address that because its not a good way to live- certainly not because she could then give up work and sit around all day! Can you not see the irony in that!