misandry doesn't exist

yes Nyac, also that character from The Women's Room who MRAs like to quote as if she was a real person.

So Nyac no suggestions at all about what to do about the massacre of girls?

I thought you cared about that, or is it really just an argument you have spouted without really giving a damn. If not then again I ask you, what ideas do you have to stop this evil? Or are you more interested in trying to prove your "misandry doesn't exist" ideas?

I resent your implication that I am spreading propaganda - if there is any propaganda here it's that "misandry doesn't exist".

I am not spouting propaganda, I am speaking the truth as I see and hear it.

Is the truth propaganda? Am I wrong to say that most men think that rapists are animals? Am I wrong to say that an entire TV panel of women and audience of women laughed hysterically at a man who had been drugged and mutilated after telling his wife he wanted to divorce her?

These are facts, not propaganda.

I am against injustices against anyone, not just against injustice against women.

What about you Nyac? Do you only care when the female is a victim of injustice? Do you never care when a male is a victim of injustice?

Do you only care about women's rights? Do you think it is right to oppose men who seek their own rights against injustice?

Is it not possible for feminists and MRAs to work together to fight injustice against either gender, to fight for what's right rather than what most benefits one gender over another?

I think we just got Godwin's.

I'm surprised Feminazis haven't been mentioned yet.

LOL at the SCUM Manifesto being equal to Mein Kampf.

One of them led to the slaughter of 6 million Jews and bloodshed across Europe.

The other, well the other didn't.

The SCUM manifesto is satire. What it prescribes for what we should do to men is what men already do to women. Don't you get that?

Hi SinicalSanta,

Thanks for your reply and for getting the two "ells" right - (hehe there's really three ells in my name, but never mind :)

I have indeed read much of the thread SinicalSanta, and I'm intrigued by many of the points of view.

Puddles versus the ocean? I wonder. One case in point. A woman gets raped. Most men would think the rapist was an absolute animal and would want to beat his head in. A woman drugs a man who wanted to divorce her and proceeds to cut of his penis while he begs for mercy. A whole lot of women on a TV show howl in hysterical laughter about it and another bunch of women set up a facebook fan page for the perpetrator. Another example? Watch pretty much any TV commercial today and see how often the woman is portrayed as smarter than the man. Another example? Watch a TV show where somebody is killed and it's a good thing they were killed. Chances are it was a man who was killed an nobody cares. When a woman is killed on TV it is normally portrayed as a horrific thing and the man who killed her will surely meet a gruesome death. Women who kill men on TV however are portrayed as heroines. Another? Family court. How often does a man win custody. If a man fails to pay up he's seen as a "dead beat dad" (you don't often hear "dead beat mum" and fathers who fail to pay are far more likely to be sent to jail than non custodial mothers who fail to pay.

The problem is when your eyes are only open to one kind of discrimination and shut to another kind. If you see all the cases of discrimination against women, but ignore, minimize, dismiss or fail to see the cases of discrimination against men, then of course you are going to see oceans versus puddles.

Misandry is defined as hatred against men. That's all.

If I can be accused of being misogynistic simply for not buying into the absurd idea that misandry doesn't exist; then surely the woman who wrote the SCUM manifesto, as mentioned in this thread - a woman who called for the culling of human males in a similar way to the way Hitler fostered hatred of Jews in his book Mein Kampf - could be accused of being a misandrist.

Misandry is hatred of men. You would have to hate men to want to have them murdered en masse. Valerie Solanas called for this to happen and hence was no doubt a misandrist.

Misandry is real.

tell us whether you're in the UK or elsewhere and whether you're a man or a woman, Lilly, and we'll be able to make sensible activism suggestions for you.

Why are you promoting mens rights propaganda in a space for wormen's rights Lilly?

Haven't you read the thread Lilly, and seen what people say about the difference between misogyny and misandry not being two sides of the one coin?
They don't compare. Do you think they do?

It's like comparing a puddle with an ocean.

Oh, and I meant to say, I didn't take it as you being critical, just wanted to follow.

Thanks - don't worry if it's too much trouble, I just wanted to understand and my brain is running about half an hour behind at the moment so I didn't know if I'd said it badly or I'd missed your point. One of those days.

Sounds like a good meeting you had!

jericho will pm you tomorrow if you like but I just want to say I wasn't being critical as such, but the language issue bugs me somewhat now. I thought your post was great btw. Will get back later.

I've been out tonight to a Constituency Labour Party meeting. We have been discussing education tonight. Great debate ensued with an excellent guest speaker. I love my party and am delighted that it has all women shortlists. I don't give a fig if in some CLPs this doesn't work; in general it does. It means more participation by 50% of the population. It's not there yet. Labour has its problems too.

This has been an excellent discussion so far. I think we all agree that misandry doesn't exist. But I'm loving the derail into class and social disparities.

do read it, Sahara, it is an excellent report. The bit you want is on pp.45-50 . There are some shockers in the section on direct discrimination.

Oh cheers Basil.

Ok, I've got to go, but i'll come back to the thread tomorrow and reply. I'll check out your link tomorrow Tunip.

I refer you to the numbers Sahara.

Also, are you going to argue that black people choose not to be politicians too, because they are underrepresented? And they choose not to be CEO's, not to be DG of the BBC, not to have power?

I'm afraid you're coming across as extremely unsophisticated.

The point about women giving birth is interesting.

I suppose there must have bee a time when the women was pregnant, gave birth and breastfed, and during all of that time the man had to support her in a very real, immediate, material way - or else his mate would die and his baby would die and his genes wouldn't be passed on. But the more our human societies evolve in the direction they've taken in the Western world, the more this responsibility is farmed out to other women or to ''society''. So a woman can do her bit by giving birth, but society actively discourages men from putting in the equivalent effort.

Ok Basil, do you want to be a politician? Are you a politician? Do you know anybody who is? Are you saying that you would have no chance of being one?

I'm not evading any issue. Women are not excluded from politics. I'll believe it when you provide me with concrete proof.

yes, here - it's the House of Commons Speaker's Conference on Parliamentary Representation Final Report 2010.

It is mainly women who focus on families, or at least, most of the women I know (with the exception of my formidable cousin, who could probably run the government whilst rotationally breastfeeding newborn sextuplets!) make family life their priority. I don't know how common it is for men to focus on their family in the way DH does. That was more by luck than design when I picked him, I didn't have a tick list.

Well said Basil!

You're evading the issue SM.

Politicians are people like us.

Oh actually, in the main, no they're not.

They're generally male, white and middle class.

So not like most of us.

But YKWIM

It is not an unfairness that women give birth.

The unfairness, is that women are punished with poverty, for giving birth and taking time out from the paid workplace, to nurture the next generation.

If your DH wants more paternity leave, what is he doing to campaign for it? Has he written to his MP? Has he asked his boss for part time hours?

Men can change the workplace by demanding the right to be fully involved fathers as well as workers.

But it seems that many of them have either been brain-washed by patriarchy so that it doesn't occur to them to do that, or that in fact, they enjoy their privileged position within patriarchy too much, to risk losing it.

I don't know Tunip. Have you got evidence of this?

Do I think that having a 50/50 men/women ratio would be a good thing? No idea, politicians are all self serving anyway, regardless of gender. They don't care what the masses think. The female politicians have proved themselves to be as idiotic as their male counterparts, but more driven because they feel they have something to prove.

Um, sahara, up thread you did say that it was women who chose to focus on families ... are you changing your mind here?

It is lovely that you feel you function fully (me too), but I think we have to be careful not to end up with an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality here.