misandry doesn't exist

I don't agree, trills. An individual can be racist, or misogynistic, because we live in a racist, patriarchial society. If we did not live in such a society, such actions of one individual against another would be disgusting, but also anomalous and without the sanction (institutionalized or overt) of wider society.

michiest - ok, I disagree re. sexism. I think it's not comparable but nevertheless very real.

There's shitloads less of it, obviously, but it does exist.

If I understand your definitions correctly then you'll (generic you, not you personally) have to stop using "misogynist" as a way to describe an individual, because it is a thing that is entrenched in society, not a characteristic that an individual can possess.

Men suffer as a result of sexism against women but there can also be direct sexism against men.

The issue with the racism analogy is that race is a construct. Biologists can find out all sorts of things about people's genetic heritage, but 'race' itself is a social construct, not purely a biological one. Therefore, in non-racist society, discriminating against someone for having black skin would not be racist - it'd be horrible, and despicable, but it would not be (IMO) different from discriminating against someone for being blonde or for having a beard.

Cross-post ... trills, I think then we differ in our understanding of the terminology.

IMO we already have a word for the thing you're describing as misandry, and it's sexism. I would say they're different. But I don't think it's silly to disagree.

I think misandry could be institutionalized in certain societies or micro-cultures. I just don't think, in our society, it exists on a structural level as misogyny does.

But this is all dependent on how we define misogyny. If it's just a synonym for 'sexism against women' then yes, obviously misandry exists. If it means something more systematic and institutionalized, I'm not sure misandry does exist.

I think one way to look at it would be, if we agree the patriarchy is a term for real pressures in the world, do we also think there's 'the matriarchy' out there too, enforcing misandry? I don't see how the two could co-exist!

If we lived in a perfectly equal society, or a matriarchal society, but there was a person who hated women and looked down on them and thought they were inferior, then that person would be a misogynist and misogyny would exist both as a concept and something that was actually out there in the real world.

If we lived (this is slightly closer to reality) in a society where the colour of people's skin was not considered any more important than the colour of their hair or their height or whether they were left-handed, some people within that society might still judge others based on their skin colour and would therefore be racist. Racism would exist, even in a non-racist society.

Just because society is not misandrist doesn't mean that some people aren't, and therefore it does exist.

I wasn't dismissing the point of the OP, but I disagree with the title.

Ok, how is it silly to say that?

I'm prepared to take your point, but I didn't post a knee-jerk response to the OP ... would you be able to take a moment or two to explain your position before you dismiss mine and the OP's title?

at deliberately controversial title.

It does exist, and it's silly to say it doesn't.

It's perfectly sensible to say that it doesn't exist in a comparable manner.

I agree. Misogyny refers to the ingrained structure - there isn't one for men.

Not to say that sexism doesn't hurt men too - I think often men are the collateral damage in misogynistic targeting of women.

I think your son's right windyandrainy. Misandry worldwide doesn't extend to discrimination and oppression the way misogyny does, but it definitely exists. We have a far greater tolerance in society for generalised 'men are useless' statements, jokes, adverts and so on than would be allowed for any other grouping. May only manifest itself as sniping but it's there all the same

Love this definition of it though...