misandry doesn't exist

I don't know whether misandry is listed is listed in the most recent verion Shorter Oxford.

I'm not looking for a way to misinterpret your words, what on earth makes you think I'm doing that? I just wanted clarification, so I have a full understanding. That's all.

I think someone can hate without causing harm.

^ Well said, Nyac

I think you need to demonstrate the harm before you can call someone a hater. Because that's what woman hating is based on, that's what hatred of people of colour, or gay and lesbian people is based on. Serious and even lethal violence, used to terrorise people into submission.

If a woman hates all men, then yes, it makes her a man hater. However, I highly doubt she regularly carries out acts of violence and control against these men.

However, what our society has is a large number of men, and sometimes even women, acting in ways to oppress women. Not just sometimes, but consistently, and frequently.

We're America, Mark 2, but everyone's too busy going on about women who hate men...

Who cares about women who supposedly hate men anyway? Why are they so important to certain people? Why is it necessary to claim that they must exist? As if they could do any kind of harm to men whatsoever. I'll just repeat what I said before:

"Women don't rape, abuse, batter men on a global scale. We haven't created a matriarchy that has placed men in second place for millennia. We don't have a social system that sees women as more important than men and holds men in contempt and views anything connected to men as second rate and unimportant. We don't use men as domestic sexual and reproductive appliances, appliances that every woman can own. We didn't create marriage laws that entitled us to ownership of the men we were married to, right down for it being legal to sexually assault them if we wanted to. We didn't do that to men, men did and do that to us. That's what misogyny is. Misandry - where is it?"

I am always amused that it is feminists who are accused of misandry (sometimes - and equally misguidedly - lesbians are also accused of hating men)

It's not feminists who think that men can't be equally good care-givers.

It's not feminists who think it's beyond men's ability to work out how to make a washing machine function.

It's not feminists who think that 'boys will be boys'

It's not feminists who think that men are so weak they can't control themselves when in the vacinity of a mini-skirt

And it's not feminists who think the world would be a better place if women were in charge.

In my experience, those who make sweeping negative statements about men are the least likely to be feminists.

Is misandry listed in the most recent version Shorter Oxford?

"Are you saying I'm 'pretty ignorant'?"

No. Stop asking me "are you saying/do you mean, blah, blah, blah" because it seems an opportunity for you to write out misinterpretations of what I'm saying.

Just respond directly with your own opinion.

at all the muddleness* in recent posts.

If misandry exists, what is the effect?

*not in any dictionary

Are you saying I'm 'pretty ignorant'? I believe that there are certain women who hate men, how can you say there aren't? If an individual woman professes to hate all men, doesn't that by definition make her a 'man hater'?

I don't quite understand what you mean with your first sentence. What am i saying about what?

I'm simply saying that the term 'misandry' exists in various dictionaries and the description allocated to it is 'hatred of women'. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, that is exactly what it means. I don't question other 'recent' word entries in the Oxford dictionary either, why would I?

"pushing the term "misandry"

See, it's such a non word, I can't even type it out.

Anybody who is old enough to remember will know that this word was not in usage at all in the 70s and 80s, was only being bandied around by anti-feminists in the 90s when they were slagging off feminists, and has only been come to be seen as a legitimate concept as recently as a few years ago, by people who are pretty ignorant, mind you.

I'm saying the people have been pushing the term misogyny in the last 20 years are misogynists. What are you saying?

Anyway like I said, is the term listed in the Shorter Oxford? One of the interesting things about "misandry" is that it hasn't been listed in dictionaries until incredibly recently, and perhaps not even then.

The lexicographers clearly also haven't thought it was a valid term.

When you say that 'The dictionary isn't the last word you know. It's created by human beings with an agenda too'. Do you mean that the people who create the Oxford dictionary are misogynists?

Google Books agrees with some of those sources.

"With respect, I don't understand why you get to chose the meaning of certain words, and ascribe your own personal views to them."

Yeah, we leave that up to misogynistic men.

The dictionary isn't the last word you know. It's created by human beings with an agenda too. Words have political power. If they didn't the woman-haters wouldn't be trying so hard to create the smokescreen of "misandry".

I don't think it's listed in the shorter Oxford, at least not until very recently, and if it was in the unabridged version, well they list pretty much every word that has ever been used in English.

I woudn't use any word to replace misandry with Sahara. Misandry doesn't exist in reality.

Women don't rape, abuse, batter men on a global scale. We haven't created a matriarchy that has placed men in second place for millennia. We don't have a social system that sees women as more important than men and holds men in contempt and views anything connected to men as second rate and unimportant. We don't use men as domestic sexual and reproductive appliances, appliances that every woman can own. We didn't create marriage laws that entitled us to ownership of the men we were married to, right down for it being legal to sexually assault them if we wanted to. We didn't do that to men, men did and do that to us. That's what misogyny is. Misandry - where is it?

"immortality" is listed in the OED. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist, either...

And it does matter what website it comes from. That's coming from a student. We're always taught that some sources are more reliable than others...

I don't really think it matters which site it came from, FWIW, I simply googled origin of the word 'misandry' and that came up, I didn't negotiate the actual site. I could spend a great deal of time researching if I could be bothered. I think the evidence is there, that the usage isn't something that is relatively new, is all.

I don't understand why a term, that is also in the Oxford dictionary, listed as the hatred of men, isn't valid. Do you know something the Oxford dictionary doesn't? If so, what? Are there no women that hate men? With respect, I don't understand why you get to chose the meaning of certain words, and ascribe your own personal views to them. In the Oxford dictionary, misogyny means hatred of women. All pretty simple to me. Which word would you replace misandry with?

Oh my god, look at their "history matters" page:

:unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

Lunatics.

"who they are sitting next to" even.

Googling Saraha's list of sources only brings up one entry. Here's where those sources that Saraha quotes are listed. An MRA, anti-feminist blog:

unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/2011/02/misandry-word-its-origin.html

Misandry exists in the sense that it is possible to cobble two latin roots together. It doesn't exist in the sense of describing a real phenomenon, and it is also a word that came into popular usage after 1990 when the MRAs started bandying it around, and a whole lot of people who were desperate to claim "women do it too" jumped on it.

If people want to climb on the MRA bandwagon and help promote that agenda then so be it, but they should take a look at who is sitting next to it.

Oh right , okay

A quick google to clear up some of the misandry origin debate...

1871 ? misandrous ? ?In many of the cephaopods already mentioned, the only specimens ever captured belonged to the female sex, and seemed to pass, like the Amazons of old, an experience which may be termed a misandrous life.? [John George Wood, The illustrated natural history, Reptiles, Fishes, Molluscs, &c., Volume 3, London: George Routledge & Sons, 1871, p. 365]

1871 ? misandrist ? ?We cannot, indeed, term her an absolute misandrist, as she fully admits the possibility, in most cases at least, of the reclamation of men from their naturally vicious and selfish state, though at the cost of so much trouble and vexation of spirit to women, that it is not quite clear whether she does not regard their existence as at best a mitigated evil.? [From review of novel ?Blanche Seymour? (anonymous), The Spectator, London, Apr. 1, 1871, p. 359]

1878 ? misandry ? dictionary entry on the prefix; ?MIS, MISO.?1. (Gr. fitaelv, to hate ;) in a number of compounds, as misagathy, hatred of the good; ??[Charles P. Krauth, A vocabulary of the philosophical sciences, Sheldon & Company, New York, 1878, p. 770]

1885 ? misandry ? ?She could not account for it, and it was a growing source of bitterness, of misogyny as well as misandry.? [?The Crack of Doom,? Blackwood?s Edinburgh Magazine, Edinburgh, Scotland & London, England, Volume 138, Jul. ? Dec. 1885, p. 289]

1888 ? misandry ? ??nor shall I speak of philanthropy, nor philandry, much less of their opposites, misanthropy, misogyny, misandry, for the last of which terms the synonym Miss Anthony is now in common use.? [From: Announcement of the 15th dinner, on Apr. 26, 1888, of the Six O?Clock Club (reporting an accredited speech from the May 24, 1888 14th dinner); text reprinted in: Frank Lester Ward, Glimpses of the Cosmos, Vol. IV, G. Putnam?s Sons, New York, 1915, p. 128]

1888 ? misandry ? ?? a little misandry from some constitutional man-hater ?? Considering the source ? the Woman?s Christian Temperance Union ? it is reasonable to suppose that the author employing this early use of the word was a woman. [?W. C. T. U. Notes. - By The Local W. C. T U.? from Christian Standard (Cincinnati, Oh.), The New Era (Humeston (Io.), May 16, 1888, p. 8]

etc...

Women do it too is popular logic with anti-feminists ecclesvet.

Did you realise you're coming across like one?

But men aren't collectively discriminated against, or the victim of gender based crimes.

Where men are discriminated against (please see Basil's link in the Louis De Bernieres thread; Tony Porter on the man box) it is the flip side of misogyny.

Misandry was a term coined up by MRA's, who object to feminism, in an attempt to discredit what feminists have done. It's a term chucked at the feminists, in an attempt to make us all look like the straw feminist trope that the media perpetuates. The truth is, they're directing their anger in the wrong direction, because they spend so long listening to the media, they forget to take a deep look at what feminism is really about.

On a side note, I'm sat here chuckling to myself; Google Chrome's spell check recognises the word "misogyny". "Misandry", however, is underlined as a spelling mistake.