misandry doesn't exist

I've got another one - women who think rapists should be punished for their crimes, instead of the current 6% conviction rate we've got.

An exemple of how "misandry" manifests itself: Women who won't let clearly abusive fathers have contact with their children. Those poor blokes!

I have two girls and one eejit actually said Does your husband mind having 2 girls?
wtaf?
Someone else told my sister she could stop now, she had a boy first then a girl. The perfect family, apparently.

I think we are straying into the arena of Daft Stuff People say About Babies

IME there's an expectation that the ideal is having one of each. My family goes girl, boy, boy, and I never got any of the negative stuff about boys that Sahara reports, but when I told people dc2 was going to be a boy I got a lot of congratulations.

Sahara

I think you're describing effects of cultural gender stereotyping that can be harmful and starts even before the child is born.

I had the same when expecting my two daughters but when my ds came along and was presenting at an early age with problems (since diagnosed with autism), I was told that boys do things differently, such as not talk till later. This cultural gender sterotyping would have harmed him had I not been as forceful as I was in ignoring it and demanding that his needs be addressed.

I got a lot of that daft pregnancy talk too - except I had two girls.
It's still only words though - not much weight behind them.

Kids pick on each other in school. It's bullying and should be dealt with. Again, a boy could just as easily said those things.

Sitting still and keeping quiet is a feature of the classroom, isn't it?

Nothing you have said there says misandry to me, it wouldn't say misogyny either if your child was a girl. They are just gripes really.

But the patriarchy hurts boys too, of course. For children it manifests as teaching boys to deny their feelings, that is so damaging imo. 'Little monster' tshirts? 'Big boys don't cry'? Hyper-masculinisation does no one any favours.

Sinical, if I use the term misandry in the same way that you use misogyny, i.e a response for discrimination, hate, privilage and everything else in between..

sticking to my own personal examples...

Whilst pregnant I had much 'sympathy' for the fact I was carrying a son, including

'Oh I bet you wish you were having a girl'

'Have you bombproofed your house'

'Oh that's a shame, girls clothes are so much nicer, you can't dress boys well'

'Boys just up and leave you, let's hope you have a girl next time'

'You'll have to train him to look after you and your DH, because girls always do that'

'Oh, are you disappointed, did you want a girl. All women want girls really'

etc, etc

Whilst pregnant with DS 2...

'Oh God, not another one'

'Oh well, never mind, are you trying again?' x 20

'Another one? I'll make sure I come to your house because I don't want my house trashed'

'I bet you're disappointed aren't you?'

'Never mind love, there's always the next time' (from my midwife)

etc, etc

So I'm going to now miss out the many other examples during DS's todderhood and move on to DS starting school.

Ds has returned home upset because many times a girl in his class has been unpleasant. Including telling him his work is rubbish, he can't draw properly, girls are better than boys, lying about him, telling him he didn't get an award for being good,,it was because he was stupid.

The focus at school seems to be on his supposed inability to keep still and focus on writing and drawing, however, suprise, suprise, he's very focussed on outdoor and practical stuff (which has been proven to stimulate boys in a learning environment), but the school chooses not to focus on this, and his 'inability' to sit still and learn is a problem but they don't try to address this.

Dworkin, I was saying if there was a men's rights section here on MN, would you stay out of it?

I wouldn't go onto a MRA site to join in the discussion either.

Sahara I would never go voluntary to an MRA site, and have no interest in 'discussion' with them, unless they infiltrate other sites.

MRA threads are in general abusive to women. They never focus on how men can make their lives better. MRA threads/forums are "always the victim never your fault" types of discourse I could do without. Ta!

Can Lilly, I love, or Sahara explain how misandry manifests in real life?

As opposed to people saying stuff in on the internet.

Thanks

Good posts Lilly and ILove.

As for posting 'men's rights propaganda' in the women's rights section, do you think if there actually was a men's rights section on MN (which, incidentally, would be a great idea), you would keep out of it?

I think you have to have read Freud making generalisations about women in order to get the satire in Solanas - a lot of the antifeminists who miss the irony are under the bizarrely ignorant impression that no-one has ever said anything like that about women and if they did they would be shot down.

Nyac

The manifesto can be read in all its glory here:

www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

Enjoy!

IloveDinosaurs can you link to some of the posts on RadFem Hub to support your evidence?

As I feminist, I would never charge another woman with the word 'bitter'.

Is Valerie Solanas' SCUM manifesto misandric or is it a brilliant satire?

Nobody has explained how this "misandry" manifests itself, given it's supposed to be equal in seriouness to misogyny or why given the global scale of male violence towards and destruction of women, why we're supposed to regard it as an important issue.

Oh wow Mumsnet actually deleted Lilly's attack. Almost a first. You're applauding empty space there ILoveDinosaurs.

Lilly (two l's for the unwary), why would you post men's rights propaganda in Mumsnet's women's rights section?

As for calling me a bully - whatever.

I'm not reporting it because Mumsnet don't appear to delete these sorts of attacks anymore.

I just wanted to clarify some muddled wording in my previous post:

OLD
Sex without consent is rape and anyone who argues that it's ok to have sex with a woman is not rape is pretty likely to be a woman hater.

NEW
Sex without consent is rape and anyone who argues that it's ok to have sex with a woman WITHOUT HER CONSENT, AND THAT THIS is not rape is pretty likely to be a woman hater.

Are 2 men a week murdered by their current or former partner where you live, Sahara?

2 women a week are murdered in the UK, by a current or former partner. Yet, lets ask about the men, again. Because, you know, us women are such a great threat towards them.

Do the men you know regularly get emails telling them how to keep safe whilst out and about?

Because the women I know do.

Do the men you know get subjected to stricter treatment from their parents, under the basis they need protecting?

I've only ever known that to be the case towards a woman.

Are men having their reproductive rights, forced to keep unwanted pregnancies where you live, Sahara?

I have at least three friends living in places where they would struggle to get a termination, if needed. A further five living in the US, where the anti-abortion campaigners are predominantly men.

Yet we need to worry about how we're treating men? Really?

Good grief - "feminicide is atrocious" but whataboutthemenz? It's like it just doesn't touch you.

Where in the world is there genocide against males because they are males.

Yes, I agree, femicide is atrocious, and it needs dealing with by the governments in those countries, the repercussions of femicide is beginning to be felt by those countries. I don't think that should mean that we don't care if a man is subjected to poor treatment. Would you hold the same view if it was your brother or son?

Like I said who cares about "man-hating" when woman hating causes real and serious harm to women and girls.

There are a 100 million missing women and girls in India and China for example because they are aborted or killed as babies because they are female.

They didn't even get the chance to grow up to be "man-haters", the women haters made sure of that.