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Original poster

Atheism and misogyny

188 replies

Dworkin · 29/12/2011 14:30

Some men sink to a new low when it comes to sexually objectifying a 15 year old girl on reddit. Sick and nasty stuff.

skepchick.org/2011/12/reddit-makes-me-hate-atheists/

OP posts:
chibi · 29/12/2011 18:00

There was another good bloglink on reddit to sexism in geek culture, i will try to find it (i may be some time...)

stuffedauberginexmasdinner · 29/12/2011 18:00

Thanks for those links forkful. I never knew that about Richard Dawkins, not that I was ever a fan anyway.

chibi · 29/12/2011 17:56

how funny, i read this eaier today or yesterday. i go on reddit now and then, this blog was linked to on one of the feminist subreddits (can't recall which one)

this blog is not dodgy, nor is reddit on the whole, though it does contain explicitly misogynist subreddits, as well as garden variety misogynist/sexist posts in other subreddits

it is disturbing to note that not only was the girl who posted a pic of herself with her xmas present (a carl sagan book?) underage, all the posters posting slimy comments about her were totally aware of that.

blee.

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 17:10

I didn't know about skepchic but I do now!

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 17:08

I also want to make it clear that I wasn't deliberately being obscure in my OP. I just presumed that everyone on a feminist site knows that skepchic is an atheist feminist. Blush

Sardine, I know exactly what you mean :)

OP posts:
Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 17:04

I loved that link Forkful, especially this comment:

?Why are you concentrating on XX when XY is so much more important??

Now that's humour. And my politics is definitely 'feminist politics', proudly. :o

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SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 17:01

Also I mean when bob is on the telly I pay attention as what he says has an effect on people I know and the tubes and stuff.

Not that I buy DVDs of him speaking and use them for motivational purposes or entertainment or anything Grin

This thread isn't going very well for me, coherence-wise!

I tell you what though, seeing that reddit thing makes me really value MN.

forkful · 29/12/2011 16:58

Sardine -I know what you mean! As for your politics - they are now feminist politics. Grin

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:55

Sorry just re-read my last post - I don't mean that everyone on the middle and left are sexist! But that they are just as bad as the right and everyone is as bad as each other basically.

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 16:49

The phrase biological determinism is to me loaded with irony when coming from the mouths of male athiests. A pre determined set of rules; the old 'blue print' of life nonsense - I like The Smiths because it's in my genetic makeup. It's strangely analogous with the first book of the old testament: Genesis.

And regarding women's reproductive freedom, the phrase cause and effect comes to mind; and given that a lot of male atheists have a scientific background or a skeptical mind, they know exactly the cause and effect that controlling women has. They aren't that bothered because they think women are there for sexual gratification only.

When women do speak with intellect and intelligence they know they have to mind their p's and q's in RL; though the link suggests that, on the internet at least, the true nature is unleashed and unrestrained.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:41

There is a big problem with sexism in all communities as far as i can see. For a natural lefty, the realisation that all the people in the middle and left were as bad as those on the right was a bit of a shocker and now I don't know what to do with my politics.

I mean look at Bob Crowe speaking (which I do as we know a lot of people who are members of his union) and ask yourself if he has the women's problems at the forefront of his mind. (Rhetorical question).

SardineQueen · 29/12/2011 16:38

For avoidance of doubt, the link in the OP is to a feministy website telling about how this 15yo was treated so atrociously when she posted a comment on the reddit athiest site (whatever that might be).

I also don't understand what is wrong with posting this link and it's a shame that lollygag's first response warned against clicking the link so I nearly didn't. And wants the poster banned for linking to porn Confused which is simply bizarre.

forkful · 29/12/2011 16:31

I think that a lot of the male athiests take their cues from biologial determinism being the logical extention from evolution/natural selection.

I would be interested to see what athiest men are saying about religion controlling women's bodies (contraception/abortion/sex outside marriage etc). Perhaps they just aren't that bothered as it doesn't effect them directly?

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 16:17

Thank you forkful. I remember that and I too lost all respect for Dawkins after that. There's no way women can feel included when he makes extremely unhelpful remarks like that. He was basically saying 'Shut up and be grateful for the male gaze western woman, just think of how bad things could be.'

I agree there is a big problem with sexism in the atheist community.

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lollygag · 29/12/2011 16:17

forkful.Thanks for the link.If you actually analyse what Dawkins is saying I think you'd have to conclude that he's right.

nailak · 29/12/2011 16:13

The link is a femenist who is disgusted at the treatment of a young girl. How is that offensive?

I.don't think there is any humour in the comments, and the upvoters are as sick as the posters.

forkful · 29/12/2011 16:09

Dworkin - I don't think you are "propagating" anything by starting a thread here. I am aware that there is a lot of discussion amongst women in the athiest community (on the internet) about the sexism they encounter.

I was quite surprised about it as I think like many I wrongly assumed that athiests would have more enlightened values towards women - but unfortunately just like in trade unions and other left leaning organisations - sexism knows no boundaries.

Rebecca Watson who founded SkepChic is a feminist and there are some interesting lectures on you tube from her around being a female in the athiest community and focussing on what the religious right in the US is doing to women.

You've reminded me that I've meaning to post for a while about a dreadful comment Richard Dawkins made.

Rebecca really respected and liked Richard and they were actually both on a panel at a conference in the summer.

where she talks about hate mail and rape threats.

Then soon afterwards Rebecca blogged about being propositioned in a lift at 3am after a conference (a different one I think) - she'd been talking about sexism and objectification etc and the difficulties being a vocal female athiest - then some bloke follows her to the lift at 3am and says he finds her very interesting. She said in a very light tone on her podcast "hey guys don't do that - especially when I've been talking about receiving rape threats etc" - anyway a whole storm blew up in the athiest community - how dare she have objected to this blah blah. Poor menz can't even ask women out now FFS.

See this blog by another athiest - then Richard Dawkins comments (see comment number 75).

The comment is dreadful but baring in mind that he knows Rebecca and has sat next to her on a panel with her discussing sexism. Shock

He basically wrote a satirical letter addressed to a muslim women "Dear Muslima" Hmm extremely crudely referencing her "real" issues and telling this Muslima to stop whining because some american woman was asked for coffee in a lift in the US.

I was so fucked off when I read that. I had liked Richard's books but I cannot respect him now.

There is definitely a big problem with sexism in the athiest community. Sad

lollygag · 29/12/2011 16:04

Well the phrase 'blood is nature's lubricant' offends me for a start.

Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 16:01

@lollygag - why would I be banned for posting this? You've not clearly demonstrated why you find this offensive.

OP posts:
Original poster
Dworkin · 29/12/2011 16:00

@stuffed, consider it done.

@eccles, what on earth is humourous about the phrase 'blood is nature's lubricant'?

Has it come to this that women cannot post on a forum as women? A perfectly innocent posting about the child's religious mother giving her a Carl Sagen book, is turned into a display of nasty misogynism.

The link serves to help the young woman, and she posts on it thanking people for their help and support; it also demonstrates that, thankfully, some men DO get it and find sexist behaviour intolerable.

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lollygag · 29/12/2011 15:59

Have reported op to mumnset HQ with suggestion original poster is banned from site.

thunderboltsandlightning · 29/12/2011 15:57

feminist analysis of hideous misogyny

You deliberately missed out two words to change the meaning, so you could continue with this reflexive stupidity. :)

lollygag · 29/12/2011 15:53

I thought pornography was hideous misogyny but am happy to stand corrected.

stuffedauberginexmasdinner · 29/12/2011 15:45

Dworkin-ignore lollygag. It is important to recognise how innocent women are turned into objects of sexual violence just for existing online. MRAs have even tried to stalk feminists on here, out with this site.

One silver lining of the Internet is that mysogynists don't bother to hide their beliefs they way they do IRL. This makes their hatred more visible and thus gives easier justification to efforts to fight it.