Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I will stop being a feminist when ...

160 replies

garlicnutcracker · 26/12/2011 22:52

Thread prompted by one in AIBU ...

? Women's performance is always evaluated separately from their appearance.
? Women are proportionally represented at all levels in government.
? Half of all CEOs are women, matched equally with men by corporate worth and reward packages.
? Women are proportionally represented at all levels in the judiciary.
? Women carry equal weight in the military and law-enforcement services.
? Half of all wealth is owned by women.
? Women's fertility is not given as an excuse for their disenfrachisement.
? No woman is blamed for her own rape.
? Mainstream pornography does not promote violence against women.
? Mainstream media do not promote the sexualisation of women.
? No woman is expected to tolerate violence against her person.

That'll do for starters.

As a free extra: I will accept that men's rights movements have equal validity when ...

? All of the above.
? Men accept full responsibility, of all kinds, for all of their children, as automatically as women do.

OP posts:
Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:09

I'm not understanding your outrage at my remark, Mumcentre?

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:08

but I feel I am wasting my breath.....

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:08

AF - it does us good, from time to time, imo Xmas Wink

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 01:06

'Rape happens to women who are completely covered in burkha and never go out unattended. To me, that's conclusive proof of the above.'

Sorry but WTF???...rape happens because of sick men who want 'power' over women and boys and other men if they get the chance...rape is never about what you wear...but about the power and control the perpetrator feels

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:05

MJ - to your post at 00:46:

In an equal world where responsibilities, opportunities and rewards were equal, the work/home dilemma would be much less of a dilemma. You would both enjoy shared & equal opportunities to balance your money-earning activities with your family-based ones. All through my working life, I assumed that the advent of remote networking would make this an easy and natural development for families.

I am stupefied it hasn't happened.

OP posts:
WorkingClassMum · 27/12/2011 01:03

"I don't agree with your points about rape. Again, it is about taking personal responsibility. Without going into too much analysis, men ARE 'wired up' differently - do you not understand that?
It also works both ways - how many women these days make false allegations of rape as a manipulation/revenge"

I hope you've never been raped and never are, but your comments are so deeply offensive to the utter extreme

How dare you ever apologise for a rapist because of the utter bullsh1t excuse he's wired differently

I suggest you start a new thread with your absurd assertions so as to not further fail this thread and maybe you might learn a thing or two.

The answer to rape is for men to stop raping. Simple. Then a woman can't 'cry rape'

I cannot believe in this day and age with the amount of education there is now available that anyone would ever come up with this cockamamie crap.

Maybe seeing you know how to access the Internet you could entertain yourself for the rest of the afternoon expanding your knowledge or simply go back to lurking

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 01:00

Useful post, Boffyflow, thanks.

The reason half of all wealth is not owned by women is sexism. Women have no problem to accumulate and manage wealth; there are plenty of very rich women to prove it. I didn't mean women should be given half the wealth, if that's what you thought. The fact that half the wealth is no longer owned by women is an indication of women's disadvantaged opportunities.

You may hope the job goes to the most suitably qualified and able person but, more often than not, it goes to the most suitable man. There's plenty of evidence for that. As a feminist, I want to see your hope become reality.

I'm 56. Clearly age has little to do with feminist awareness.

I sort of agree with your sentiments about standing up for oneself, though the issues are more complex that you've admitted just now. I have short patience with whining passengers who won't learn to drive (metaphorically).

Men are NOT 'wired' to rape. I imagine your father, brother, partner, son, etc are not rapists. That proves men aren't driven by any uncontrollable urge to force sex on unwilling partners. Some men are driven by a strong urge to violently overpower women. This urge is a psychological and social problem. It is not, in any respect, caused by their victims.

Rape happens to women who are completely covered in burkha and never go out unattended. To me, that's conclusive proof of the above.

To answer your question - between 3% and 15% of rape allegations are false. That includes the ones the police themselves admit they decided to "treat as false" due to lack of time/evidence/resources. I have this from impeccable sources, researched for other threads.

I don't mind being catcalled because I call back. (Not that it happens much these days, but I did!) It's rude and patronising, however. You don't see many blokes telling each other to smile, show us yer legs, and the rest of it. In fact, you don't see many men yelling anything personal to strange men, do you?

OP posts:
AnyFuckerForAMincePie · 27/12/2011 00:58

some brilliant sockies turning up now

this thread could make it to classics

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 00:49

you have given a fundamental part of parenthood over to another person...more fool you..

HatesCensorship · 27/12/2011 00:48

misled*

OnemorningXmasCockMonkey · 27/12/2011 00:48

Blofly, the thing about 'cheer up, it may never happen' is the fact that, in my experience, it's always some random bloke telling a woman to smile because it's spoiling his day.

Why should any woman smile to please a strange man, FFS?

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 00:47

as i said..you chose to give your contraception over to another...good luck...you are still a father that does not change...

WilsonFrickett · 27/12/2011 00:47

boffy how can or should a woman 'take personal responsibility' for being raped? I genuinely don't understand your point.

HatesCensorship · 27/12/2011 00:46

garlicnutter

One last try! I would reject that "principle" if a man had been mislead into fatherhood. And conception is a woman's responsibility (or irresponsibility)...nature made it that way, not opinion.

MJinSparklyStockings · 27/12/2011 00:46

Actually thats one thing I dont get about this section, I love working part time, I would work less if we could afford it, I genuinely love being at home with the DCs, I think that DH has the raw end of the deal having to go to work 5/6 days a week and if he had the sort of job where we could both work part time, then I would up my hours, he would drop his.

The posts about the burden of child care, dont make a lot of sense to me, because I dont see it as a burden, I see work as a burden to be endured for the sake of financial necessity.

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 00:45

you both had sex...your child is half you...sorry you chose to not give a shit...control your sperm

HatesCensorship · 27/12/2011 00:43

Good post Boffyflow

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 00:42

One ... last ... try ...

HC, your opinion that conception is a woman's responsibility totally negates my principle that Men accept full responsibility, of all kinds, for all of their children. You reject responsibility from the very beginning.

Therefore you are an enemy of women. In my opinion.

OP posts:
HatesCensorship · 27/12/2011 00:42

No, Mumcentreplus, if the woman says she's on the pill, which is virtually infallible when used correctly, then it's her issue, whether the man is "covered" or not.

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 00:42

you are both accountable...you have both made a child ...no one is more accountable than the other

OnemorningXmasCockMonkey · 27/12/2011 00:41

HC 'And "a dick cover" ruins sex, and they don't fit well endowed men either'

They're called condoms. And my ex (11.5 inches Grin) had no problem wearing a standard condom.

So, I'd suggest you're either lying about your willy size, or doing condom-wearing wrong. Which is it?

Tortington · 27/12/2011 00:41

how does it feel to have no control over the creation of your offspring hatescensorship?

Boffyflow · 27/12/2011 00:41

I'm a lurker on Mumsnet and don't often post.

Most of your points would surely be negated if women took responsibility for themselves? We are treated as we allow ourselves to be treated.

Why should half of all wealth belong to women?
Re. employment, I would hope that the job goes to the most suitably qualified and able person, be that male or female.

I am 57 years old and have never, ever felt 'less equal' than a man.
Stand up for yourselves. I have never felt pressurised to 'do Christmas', cook meals, work part-time etc and I was happily married (with children) for many years.

I don't agree with your points about rape. Again, it is about taking personal responsibility. Without going into too much analysis, men ARE 'wired up' differently - do you not understand that?
It also works both ways - how many women these days make false allegations of rape as a manipulation/revenge tactic?

And what's wrong with being told to 'cheer up love, it may never happen' ffs?

Mumcentreplus · 27/12/2011 00:40

HC what you fail to grasp is because the man or woman in question chooses to for go or negate using contraception does not change the fact they have made a child with a person who chose not to use it either...do you get that?

Original poster
garlicnutcracker · 27/12/2011 00:39

facepalm

OP posts: